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Hot and spicy into the winter.....
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 3:13 am    Post subject: Hot and spicy into the winter..... Reply with quote

Well it has been awhile since I last posted a recipe so to start things off in a different way this is really a process instead of a recipe. What we are making is a key ingredient in many a BBQ recipe. That ingredient is dried peppers and chilies. Instead of simply drying these out in my dehydrator I chose to smoke these instead. I believe this will add just another punch to my BBQ dishes and allows me mix or blend my peppers and chilies to get a good blend. Once these are completely dried then I will store these in an air tight container or freeze them.
I know that I can buy many different types of peppers in the store and I have quite a few. What I am shooting for here is a signature blend of Banana Peppers, Green chilies, Tabasco peppers, and Ornamental Christmas peppers. I am estimating about 25,000 on the Scoville scale so they will be spicy and hot (just not as hot as habaneros). After these are thoroughly dried I can then make infused oil, or save them for dishes throughout the winter. Later in this season, I have some black pearl peppers that should be ready and I plant to infuse some tequila liqueur with these little spicy balls of furry.
Smoking and then drying pepper (such as chipotle) is relatively new to me but I believe the process to be similar to that of regular dehydrating. I start with my selection of peppers in a disposable metal pan. I want to wash them thoroughly to remove any junk that comes with picking. I am going to slow smoke these around <150 degrees for about 6 hours or until they are completely dry. (yeah, that didn't work, Slice them and then smoke them to aid in the drying process). I could do it for a shorter period of time and then put them into a dehydrator (best idea) or let them air dry in the sun but I have the time today and the fire for a 150 degree temp is relatively small. Once dry, I will place them in my pulverizing blender and beat them up for a few seconds (before they turn to powder). It is important to note that the peppers must be completely dry to prevent spoilage and in the case of infused oil; botulism could be a problem if moist product is infused with olive oil and then left at room temperature.
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Once dry, the peppers are then moved to the smoker for complete drying and flavor enhancement.
.

.
Rotate the peppers about once a hour to prevent any un-dried areas of the plants. The plants will lose their moisture and concentrate their oils into the pods.
.


The last photo is of the smoked peppers. I grounded them up and they were quite flavorful.


MORE PHOTOS TO COME......
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Last edited by Alien BBQ on Wed Oct 05 11 2:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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jess
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good looking start. Glad to see you incorperate tabasco's in your mix, most people think they taste like the tm sauce but they have a lot of flavour & a LOT more heat than most think. I have raised them for over 15yr. and make a sauce of mostly peppers, soy sauce, balsamic,garlic,worchester,& onion powder- 5 gal. a pop-works with everything from beans to burgers...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good so far, Alien BBQ! Looking forward to the final result. I'm wanting to dry/smoke some of my peppers this year. We don't usually have enough left (after eating them fresh or canning), so this year I planted some extra to try drying and grinding some.
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jess wrote:
Good looking start. Glad to see you incorperate tabasco's in your mix, most people think they taste like the tm sauce but they have a lot of flavour & a LOT more heat than most think. I have raised them for over 15yr. and make a sauce of mostly peppers, soy sauce, balsamic,garlic,worchester,& onion powder- 5 gal. a pop-works with everything from beans to burgers...


Watch the garlic... when you cook garlic, onion, mushrooms, or potatoes it makes them a hazardous food. If you add oil, botulism may occur.
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Virginiasmoke
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ wrote:
Watch the garlic... when you cook garlic, onion, mushrooms, or potatoes it makes them a hazardous food. If you add oil, botulism may occur.

How so?
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Inner10
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How so?


Virginia, it was a bit of a scare in the late 80's. From what I recall it was with those "flavored oils" garlic was a great plant for picking up botulism when it was present in the soil. This lead to companies adding some sort of acid to garlic to prevent this. Have a look at preserved minced garlic at the grocery store, it always has phosphoric acid in it.

I was told many moons ago to put a bit of vinegar in there to prevent the possibility of growing botulism.

I have no idea if this is true or false or what.
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Shaymus
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great !! I'm glad to see you back on the forums Alien, it's been awhile. I love all your posts especially Hurricane tukey. I get a lot of praise on that recipe. Muchos Gracias !! Shaymus
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Mr Tony's BBQ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16 11 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure to wear a mask when your pulverizing!!! I didnt one year, runny nose and sneezing for DAYS!!!
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01 11 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the completed smoked pepper photo is added.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01 11 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if I am getting you right. you smoked fresh peppers for 6 hours at 150 and the were dry enough to grind up..??

The last photo looks like you had em in the dehydrator or did I miss a step.
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06 11 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roxy wrote:
So if I am getting you right. you smoked fresh peppers for 6 hours at 150 and the were dry enough to grind up..??

The last photo looks like you had em in the dehydrator or did I miss a step.


No I took them out and put them on my stainless topper under a piece of glass for the rest of the day. I did not want to over-smoke them. Come the end of the day I put them in the fridge overnight uncovered and ground them up the next day. I will say that I had one or two that needed more drying so in retrospect, I think I would cut the tops off of the thicker peppers or split them. I am new at this so any insight would be appreciated.
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Chefmikey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06 11 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch the garlic... when you cook garlic, onion, mushrooms, or potatoes it makes them a hazardous food. If you add oil, botulism may occur.

Sorry Alien, but botulism doesn't 'occur' - it's either present on the food or not. The veggies you mention are not 'hazardous' at all - people have been growing and eating these for centuries! Oil also has absolutely no bearing on the presence of botulinum toxin - again the spores are either present on the food or not.
Botulinum is denatured at 140 deg. F and completely destroyed at 240 deg. F. High acid prevents the growth of the spores as well so Jess's sauce should be fine, especially if it's heated prior to using. And FYI, the citric acid added to commercially chopped garlic isn't there to prevent the growth of botulinum toxin, but rather to act as an anti-oxidant. It helps the garlic to not discolour.
Sorry to call you on this, but felt I had to clarify. Wink
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07 11 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chefmikey wrote:
Watch the garlic... when you cook garlic, onion, mushrooms, or potatoes it makes them a hazardous food. If you add oil, botulism may occur.

Sorry Alien, but botulism doesn't 'occur' - it's either present on the food or not. The veggies you mention are not 'hazardous' at all - people have been growing and eating these for centuries! Oil also has absolutely no bearing on the presence of botulinum toxin - again the spores are either present on the food or not.
Botulinum is denatured at 140 deg. F and completely destroyed at 240 deg. F. High acid prevents the growth of the spores as well so Jess's sauce should be fine, especially if it's heated prior to using. And FYI, the citric acid added to commercially chopped garlic isn't there to prevent the growth of botulinum toxin, but rather to act as an anti-oxidant. It helps the garlic to not discolour.
Sorry to call you on this, but felt I had to clarify. Wink


I know you are just trying to help and I appreciate and value your input. When I was a state restaurant inspector I became a certified HACCP instructor. This question came up quite a bit. I believe if you visit
LINK it may answer some of your questions and help you understand my position. Just start in section 3 and you will see where I am coming from. I look forward to hearing from you once you have read the data.
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GF
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07 11 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ, those peppers look good. Very Happy
Also thanks for the FDA link, interseting reading. I will have to re-read it, I'm not smart enough for all of that at one time. Embarassed
Any food safety info is good, after attending a few picnics etc. this summer, I'm amazed more people don't get sick. Shocked
Thanks again.
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Chefmikey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07 11 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alien,
I have worked in the foodservice industry for 25 years and have many food safety certifications aquired during my training and work - so I didn't have any questions about your statement, I was trying to clarify for others the inaccuraccy of your comment that "when you cook garlic, onion, mushrooms, or potatoes it makes them a hazardous food. If you add oil, botulism may occur."
I invite you to check ou this site from your own USDA which I feel better explains the situation.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Clostridium_botulinum/index.asp
Within this site, you will see the corroborating evidence to support my statements that 'botulism doesn't happen, it's either present on the food or not'. Much like salmonella or e-coli bacteria, botulinum spores are a naturally occuring organism that is present in nature on many items - however it only becomes dangerous if the botulinum spores are allowed to germinate and actually grow into botulinum toxin.
As I stated, and the USDA confirms, high temperature or high acid prevents the growth of the spores into the dangerous toxin.
To make a staement that 'cooking potatoes, mushrooms, onions or garlic makes them into a hazardous food' is mis-leading, and adding oil does not make them more so. Any toxic organism takes time to grow and produce dangerous levels of their particular toxin, so eating a baked potato (which has to be cooked above 240 deg. F to make it edible as a 'baked' potato) will destroy any spores present. Sauteeing onions or garlic does the same. Perhaps if you were to leave said baked potato (wrapped in foil) out at room temp for 6-12 hours, there is the possibility that a small amount of botulinum toxin could grow, but common sense dictates that one not eat food that has been laying on the counter for 12 hours... And the poster that you were cautioning said plainly that they used peppers (acidic), balsamic vinegar (acid) soy sauce (sodium) in their recipe, the presence of which makes a very unlikely breeding ground for the botulinum spores.
I appreciate the thought behind the cautionary post, but as someone who has spent their entire working life dealing with food, I am always wary of mis-informing people about 'foodbourne hazards' because a little bit of wrong info can cause some huge issues. Smile
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roxy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08 11 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I smell a pissin contest a commin on..

Who will win.. the teacher or the student..??
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08 11 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I was unclear in my statement and semantics aside I will try to clarify my belief with support documentation. Yes, C. botulinum does has to be present first in order to grow. Because C. botulinum is normally associated with dirt grown foods it is commonly found on potatoes, onions, garlic, and mushrooms. These foods are not normally considered a" hazardous food" in their raw form because as consumers we normally wash them off before eating and they contain other bacteria and organisms that keep C. botulinum from rapidly growing in their natural state. In this state I am only talking about C. botulinum and no other pathogen.

It is when we cook potatoes, onions, garlic, and mushrooms that the problems begin. Cooking these foods starts a chemical change within and alters their Ph, acidity, and moisture content. This is accomplished by different methods of preparation such as boiling, steaming and baking just to name a few (I will discuss pressure cooking later). When you cook these foods you generally kill most pathogens associated with these foods or their environment. C. botulinum however, is heat resistant and will survive normal cooking processes. So by cooking these foods I have eliminated the competition bacteria and the C. botulinum will proliferate more readily. By altering these food items, the FDA classifies them as "potentially hazardous" in their (cooked) altered state. If left out under room temperature C. botulinum will grow faster than in a fridge or on a steam table. If you eat the prepared food within a 4 hour period after cooking, the amount of C. botulinum should be miniscule and within the normal adults ability to overcome.

Most people are smart enough not to let food sit out all day and then try to eat it. The problem with aiding the growth of any pathogen normally arises in the improper cooling and or reheating of prepared foods. While the thought pattern is "I'll just reheat it to kill off everything" may seem correct, what most people do not think about is heat resistant pathogens or the ones that release a heat resistant toxin when they die; but as you stated, they first have to be present in order to grow.

C. botulinum is hard to kill with normal cooking methods and will slowly grow even when properly refrigerated. To make matters worse, anaerobic bacterium such as C. botulinum is only able to produce the neurotoxin during sporulation, which can only happen in an anaerobic (low oxygen) environment. Other bacterial species produce spores in an unfavorable growth environment to preserve the organism's viability and permit survival in a dormant state until the spores are exposed to favorable conditions or pH environments between 4.7 and 7. Because C. botulinum loves low oxygen environments, improper canning, covering, standard cooking in or storage in oils are perfect environments for its growth. According to the FDA site you listed: ...

... if a low-acid food, such as green beans, is canned improperly (not canned under pressure or improperly canned using a pressure canner), C. botulinum bacteria and other bacteria present will be destroyed by the boiling of water and food, but the C. botulinum spores will not be destroyed. The canning process will remove the oxygen from the jar, creating a low-oxygen environment that is will allow the spores to grow into active bacteria. When the jars are stored at room temperature, the spores can germinate and produce the toxin. However, the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes).

The second boiling of the suspect food for 10 minutes is not a common practice for elimination of the toxins that are believed to be present. Suspect foods should be discarded rather than "saved" by this method. Proper high pressure cooking will eliminate the toxins due to high temperature of +250 F. @ 15psi which exceeds the threshold of viability for the toxin. By simply boiling for 10+ minutes the internal tempeture of the food does not exceed 212 F. which is below the threshold of viability of the toxin but may kill off enough spores to render the food to be within an acceptable range. It is my personal belief that this is a bad idea and should not be practiced. Keep in mind though, proper pressure cooking brings the entire item cooking up to the desired temperature throughout.

So what are my tips in preventing contamination? Cooking in oils or butter encases the food in a layer that supports anaerobic growth of the spores. Again, nothing is wrong with eating the food after cooking or within no more than three days if properly cooled and refrigerated. When preparing the food you will want to wash it off to eliminate most spores. prepare the amount of food you will eat within the next few days. Properly cool and refrigerate the food. Initially cook and reheat the food at the suggested temperatures listed for each and do not cross contaminate foods by intermixing foods for storage. Do not open bloated cans or you could spread the spores across your kitchen when the pressure releases from the can (like a sneeze). Hopefully this will clarify my position on Clostridium botulinum and help aid in the understanding of the problem and process. Most of my 35 years of training comes from my time as a State restaurant inspector and teaching toxicology at the university here. If I confused anyone as to what I meant I would just close in saying that an ounce of prevention in this case is better than a pound of cure.

Listed below are references if anyone wants to know more on the subject.

Reduced Oxygen Packaging (ROP)

LINK

Foodborne Illness & Disease "Clostridium botulinum"

[urlhttp://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Clostridium_botulinum/index.asp]LINK[/url]
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08 11 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roxy wrote:
I smell a pissin contest a commin on..

Who will win.. the teacher or the student..??


No problem here Roxy, in fact it is probably my fault for not being entirely clear. This isn't the first time this has come up and most people just take me at my word. I have a problem with making a statement assuming that everyone knows the data behind it. I forget sometimes that other people have different training or may not understand entirely what I said. In the past I have done the long drawn out post (which you guys get after me about:) I forget that not everyone here was present during the last great debate. All is well and I am a happy guy no matter what the outcome, I am just here to help Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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roxy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08 11 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ wrote:
roxy wrote:
I smell a pissin contest a commin on..

Who will win.. the teacher or the student..??


No problem here Roxy, in fact it is probably my fault for not being entirely clear. This isn't the first time this has come up and most people just take me at my word. I have a problem with making a statement assuming that everyone knows the data behind it. I forget sometimes that other people have different training or may not understand entirely what I said. In the past I have done the long drawn out post (which you guys get after me about:) I forget that not everyone here was present during the last great debate. All is well and I am a happy guy no matter what the outcome, I am just here to help Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


All I know is my friend.. when it comes to this sort of stuff I will take your word for it as you have been there, done it and taught it as well.
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Tony
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08 11 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roxy wrote:
Alien BBQ wrote:
roxy wrote:
I smell a pissin contest a commin on..

Who will win.. the teacher or the student..??


No problem here Roxy, in fact it is probably my fault for not being entirely clear. This isn't the first time this has come up and most people just take me at my word. I have a problem with making a statement assuming that everyone knows the data behind it. I forget sometimes that other people have different training or may not understand entirely what I said. In the past I have done the long drawn out post (which you guys get after me about:) I forget that not everyone here was present during the last great debate. All is well and I am a happy guy no matter what the outcome, I am just here to help Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


All I know is my friend.. when it comes to this sort of stuff I will take your word for it as you have been there, done it and taught it as well.


Ahh, Well...No.

As I was taught by my my statistics professor, "Never Assume Anything."

Not so as it has bearing on this thread but while Alien has
professed all of what he has put forward in his original post,
it occurs to me that credence has not been given or paid to the responder who had rebutted Alien's post.

Be it clear that I am not stating that either person is right or wrong in their respective responses to the each the others' statements...

Just maybe , though...sometimes all of what one professes
may not always be what one perceives as being true.

Wink

Best Regards,

Tony Rolling Eyes
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