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cure question

 
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05 11 12:12 pm    Post subject: cure question Reply with quote

"To cure meat for sausages (comminuted) and to stay within 156 ppm nitrite limit we have to apply no more than 1 oz of Cure #1 for each 25 lbs of meat. To dry cure 25 lbs of pork butts and to stay within 625 nitrite limits we need 4 times more of Cure #1, in our case 4 ounces. Keep in mind that when you add Cure #1 (there is 93.75% salt in it) you are adding extra salt to your meat and you may re-adjust your recipe.


The reason that there are much higher allowable nitrite limits for dry cured products is that nitrite dissipates rapidly in time and the dry cured products are air dried for a long time. Those higher limits guarantee a steady supply of nitrite."
ABove From http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing

My question is:if using cure #2 (with nitrates), do you stick with the 1 ounce per 25 pounds or do you still increase? If so, by how much? thx
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Jogeephus
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Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07 11 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the only time I increase cure 2 is with an increase of meat weight. This is one of the reasons you might split the cure application to apply a fresher coat of cure but the volume of cure is still the same. I never dry cure using cure 1. That is not its purpose. Wouldn't increasing the cure four times make the meat awefully salty?
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Harry Nutczak
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09 11 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget about it being salty, because Increasing the cure would make the product extremely dangerous!

The active ingredient in cure #1 & cure#2 is toxic, so toxic that as little as 1/3rd of a teaspoon of it will kill an adult male.

So follow proven recipes, do not go messing with cure amounts.

Simple rules;
4 ounces will cure 100 pounds of meat, so 1 ounce (by weight) will cure 25 pounds of meat.
or 1 level tsp per each 5-pounds of meat when using a dry cure.


Brining is a different story, much more cure is needed for the same amount of meat becuase it is in solution and the meat does not abosorb all the solution. you also pump the brine into the meat at a ratio of 10-12% of the fresh weight.
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09 11 12:50 pm    Post subject: follow up Reply with quote

The original quote from the website is basically saying that in most sausages only 156 ppm nitrite is allowed, but for dry cured products and fermented sausages that will age over a long time period(such as prosciutto), 625 ppm are allowed. This means that you can go up to 4 ounces per 25 pounds of cure, or 1 pound per 100, in dry cured products, as the nitrite will dissipate over the long curing times.

This seemed excessive as it did to me, until it was explained properly to me.

Do you refute anything of what I have stated, and if so, please provide the source. Id like others to weigh in if they can add to the conversation. Thank You
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Jogeephus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11 11 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't understand why you would want to use cure 1 for a long cure.
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11 11 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use cure #2 up to 625 ppm I assume...
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Jogeephus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11 11 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the point of increasing it outside the recommended ranges since curing meat is a combination of reducing the water and impeding the growth of the baddies. Once the water is reduced I see no need in having a lot of nitrates/ites in the meat cause what are they going to do? I guess in theory you could add extra curing salt and wait till it breaks down but I don't know why you would want to do this. I've never had trouble curing anything with the recommended amounts. I once had trouble drying some salum in a stomach and extra curing salt could have been helpful here but I just chalked it up as a mistake somewhere and tossed the lot.
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12 11 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what you said above, that you dont use it outside of the recommendations, is exactly my question, because the recommendations are (maximum) 625 ppm for dry cured products...156 for sausages, 625 for dry cure, please look them up in FDA guide you will see I am not pulling this number out of thin air...so getting back to my question, is 156 ppm of cure #2 sufficient for dry curing products? Judging by the response, I assume it has been sufficient for many of you and so I assume it is adequate...But food fo rthought...many recipes call for more than 156 ppm in dry cured products...
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12 11 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the question and the replies, and the same question and the same replies.

My read on the whole thing, (right or wrong), is that if you are following an existing recipe TO THE LETTER, it doesn't matter what the ingredients are or the amounts, they are probably safe and the correct amounts to use, even if the book or the FDA or old uncle Tom Cobley and all, say something different.

If you have a recipe that hasn't been blown out of the water by a large class action law suite, due to a large number of deaths related to the recipe, the ingredients are probably OK.

Test them out and if you do kill anyone , (including yourself), please let us know so we can all adjust our methods! Wink Laughing Wink
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Jogeephus
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12 11 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laxmaster wrote:
.But food fo rthought...many recipes call for more than 156 ppm in dry cured products...


Never been much on spitting hairs but many of the recipes are old, tried and true. If I know and trust the source I'm not worried what the FDA says. If you want some food for thought, consider the fact that the average sausage or ham found at the grocer has only 10 ppm of residual nitrates while spinach sometimes has as much as 1900 ppm. Root crops and other leafy vegetables contribute 93% of our daily intake of nitrates/ites. So considering this, and making the huge assumption that nitrates are actually bad for you, I think the best use of leafy vegetables is to adorn the table the BBQ'ed pig is laying on.
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