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nitrite/ate limit question

 
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10 12 9:39 am    Post subject: nitrite/ate limit question Reply with quote

the limit is 156 ppm for sausages and 625 for dry cured products (im assuming dry cured/fermented sausages also)............my question pertains to the 125 and 625 ppm........does this refer to the quantity of overall Cure or the quantity of the actual nitrate within the cure...if you do the math, it works out to be the actual overall quantity of cure, but when it is referred to in books/other sources, it is referred to 625 ppm of nitrite or 156 ppm nitrite.............Thx, Paul
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11 12 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: nitrite/ate limit question Reply with quote

laxmaster wrote:
the limit is 156 ppm for sausages and 625 for dry cured products (im assuming dry cured/fermented sausages also)............my question pertains to the 125 and 625 ppm........does this refer to the quantity of overall Cure or the quantity of the actual nitrate within the cure...if you do the math, it works out to be the actual overall quantity of cure, but when it is referred to in books/other sources, it is referred to 625 ppm of nitrite or 156 ppm nitrite.............Thx, Paul


Dry-cured means products that are not heat-treated.

I think you are reading the percentages allowed in a curing salt such as Cure #1 & Cure #2, not the food product.

Cure #2 is for foods that do not get cooked, think of it like a timed release medication that releases active ingredient through a longer period of time, Whereas Cure #1 is an instant cure, and is only supposed to be used on foods that get cooked or heat treated.

This site does a spectacular job of explaining the details of different curing agents http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11 12 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry I dont think you understand my question....I was asking, is the maximum allowed concentration allowed, when specified in ppm for either dry cured products or comminuted produts, measured in the amount of overall CURE or in the amount of NITRITE/ATE within the cure mix (there is a difference as there is only 6.25% nitrite in the cure mix)..........



In other words, do i fill in the following blanks with CURE or NITRITE/ATE as there is some confusion in Marianski's book (he lso runs Wedlinydomowe website-maybe I should be emailing them this (question) ..........................................................

In comminuted products, the maximum allowed is 156 ppm of: ________________

In dry cured products, the maximum allowed is 625 ppm of: __________________
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11 12 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.FDA.gov should have your answers



If you follow proven recipe ratios correctly, amounts present in the finished product should be of no real concern unless you are preparing cured meats for a someone who is highly sensitive to nitrates,

How do you plan on testing ratios in finished product?
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laxmaster



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11 12 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats not exactly my question, but lets use that example......if that recipe calls for a maximum ppm of 625, is that 625 ppm of the cure mix (say cure mix #1), or is that 625 ppm of the nitrite contained within that cure mix #1???????????????
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14 12 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how one could even measure the amount of nitrites in a finished recipe without some sophisticated lab equipment, and the number "625" is just to coincidental to the ratio of nitrites in curing salt being 6.25%.

Maybe I am not understanding exactly what you're trying to figure out.

And I think you may be overthinking this a little too much.

Looking at your quotes from the author, I think he put those numbers in there just as an FYI thing to start with.

As long as you use the proper cure ratio , you'll be fine (4 ounces per 100 pounds of meat)

Especially If you are dry-aging, your cure and salt ratios must be exact, because your not dealing with puking or getting the runs of they aren't, your dealing with the most deadly toxin known to man if you screw up and end up light on salt or cure.
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laxmaster



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16 12 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

harry, with all due respect, i dont think you understand my question at all....

before i get to my question let me lay the groundwork for my question....

in every ounce of cure mix (lets just say#1), there is 6.25% nitrite (one sixteenth) and the remainder salt...

standard regulations call for a maximum 156 parts per million nitrite in comminuted/sausage products and 625 parts per million in dry cured products (what this means that in practical terms-in sausages you are allowed 4 ounces of cure to each 100 pounds of meat WHEN you are dealing with sausages, but 4 times that amount-16 ounces- of cure (cure #2) WHEN you are dealing with dry cured products)

in other terms of measurement, 156 parts per million and 625 parts per million equals .156 grams per kilogram of cure , and .625 grams per kilogram of cure....

so my question is, as you please re-read my above paragraph, is it technically .156/.625 grams of Cure Mix or .156/.625 grams of NITRITE?...in other words, parts per million of what-Cure Mix or NItrite? If the answer is NITRITE,then the total amount of cure mix is .625ppmX16 (or .156ppmX16.......... if the answer is CURE MIX, then the total amount of nitrite in the cure mix is 1/16th of .625 ppm
(or .156ppm divided by 16).........
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dmsintexas
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Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21 12 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laxmaster,

I understand the math Smile

The answer to your question is .156 grams of NITRITE.

The regs only care about the final concentration of nitrite and nitrate. Since different cures have different levels of nitrite/nitrate they don't regulate against the amount of cure MIX..only the amount of cure AGENT (i.e. nitrite and nitrate).

Here is a post I wrote with a few god external links (National Academy of Sciences)that tackles the subject for bacon.

http://www.bbqdryrubs.com/tenderquick-bacon/

If you would like to chat drop me a line. I've gotten tired of talking math in this forum.
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