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stick welder?

 
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EPC



Joined: 11 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 1:55 am    Post subject: stick welder? Reply with quote

hey guys I'm thinking of buying my son a stick welder for Xmas that he ask for most likely the 225 AC/DC from Lowes, for 299.00 my question is how large of a electrical service is needed to run the welder don't want to buy something he can't use or cost more than the welder to hook up.
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: stick welder? Reply with quote

EPC wrote:
hey guys I'm thinking of buying my son a stick welder for Xmas that he ask for most likely the 225 AC/DC from Lowes, for 299.00 my question is how large of a electrical service is needed to run the welder don't want to buy something he can't use or cost more than the welder to hook up.

I welcome your son to the wonderful world of stick welding. Very Happy
The recommended service is a dedicated two pole 50 AMP circuit.
The 299.00 machine is most likely AC only. The AC/DC machine is more around 600.00. In my opinion the extra cost is well worth it.
I hope this helps. Very Happy
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jess
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin, JMHO but maybe a short explanation to him on why you would suggest a machine that costs twice as much is a good move. For what it is worth I agree totally...
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jess wrote:
Kevin, JMHO but maybe a short explanation to him on why you would suggest a machine that costs twice as much is a good move. For what it is worth I agree totally...

Good point jess. Wink
Welding AC only is quite tough for a novice welder to learn on. The alternating current produces a very erratic arc and the end results are less than desirable for lack of a better word.
Welding DC is a much smoother arc and a lot easier to control, you are also afforded a much larger rod selection that can be used in different positions.
My machine has never seen the AC side I run DC reverse 99% of the time, the other 1% is DC Positive.
Trying to resell the machine if things do not work out will be a lot easier than an AC only machine.
I am sure I missed some points but this should get the ball rolling. Very Happy
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EPC



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information KAM and jess, I will need to get back with my son and see if he has the capacity to install a welder Confused

KAM you were right the welder at Lowes is only AC, any heads up on what would be a good welder for a 18 year old.
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Cat797
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many options. No matter which way you go, your son will learn a very handy skill. K.a.m. Is a stick man through and through, and no doubt stick welding offers the most versatility in being able to weld in different positions and in different environments. That being said, it is probably the most challenging to learn how to do......a lot of novice welders these days learn MIG first because it is relatively easy to do. I have no doubt your son would pick up on stick though. I agree that you are better off to spend more on the correct machine than to fight it and become discouraged early on. You are only limited by your wallet......I say go for it! Cool

I would have loved to have been introduced to it at such an early age by my dad......

Good luck,
Ed
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed, gives some solid advice EPC.
First you should find out if your son wants to learn stick or just wants to get into welding in general.
If he wants to get into welding in general and would like to start laying down good looking welds that will hold in a hurry then I would say a wire feed is probably what he should choose.
A Hobart Handler 140 like this.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-handlerreg%3B-140-mig-welder
Will get him welding in no time. It is also a 115 volt machine so no real wiring will be required.
There are tons of online help that have great videos as well as help here.
Talk to your son and see what he wants to do then we can maybe help point y'all in the right direction. Very Happy
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jess
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good choices out there. I have a miller 211 for wire that is a great machine, but being old school my go to is a Lincoln 225 ac/dc reverse pol. I have had this old tombstone for 30yrs. plus & have replaced the fan once. JMHO...
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jess wrote:
Lots of good choices out there. I have a miller 211 for wire that is a great machine, but being old school my go to is a Lincoln 225 ac/dc reverse pol. I have had this old tombstone for 30yrs. plus & have replaced the fan once. JMHO...


My old AC thunderbolt is over 30 years old, I retired it about 9 yrs ago for my Miller AC/DC thunderbolt. The old AC still runs great but she is liking her retirement.
I have never found a need to buy a wire feed machine, stick is all I need. Very Happy
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whall
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10 14 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started welding with my dad's 220 ac stick welder, There was definitely a learning curve to say the least.

I have a Hobart Handler 140 and I would say that it is a great little machine for the beginner. You can use flux core and also have the option of using shielding gas. I have welded thin mild steel, and up to 1/4" mild steel both with flux core and using shielding gas. I have also used it to weld some stainless steel.

I used the welder to weld everything on my cooker build except for the d-rings I added to help with lifting the tank. I used a stick welder so I could get a good solid weld.
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MongoNC
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11 14 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

k.a.m. wrote:
jess wrote:
Kevin, JMHO but maybe a short explanation to him on why you would suggest a machine that costs twice as much is a good move. For what it is worth I agree totally...

Good point jess. Wink
Welding AC only is quite tough for a novice welder to learn on. The alternating current produces a very erratic arc and the end results are less than desirable for lack of a better word.
Welding DC is a much smoother arc and a lot easier to control, you are also afforded a much larger rod selection that can be used in different positions.
My machine has never seen the AC side I run DC reverse 99% of the time, the other 1% is DC Positive.
Trying to resell the machine if things do not work out will be a lot easier than an AC only machine.
I am sure I missed some points but this should get the ball rolling. Very Happy


KAM think ya got it backwards DC reverse is DCEP, which is what most SMAW electrodes run. DC straight is DCEN.
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11 14 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MongoNC wrote:
k.a.m. wrote:
jess wrote:
Kevin, JMHO but maybe a short explanation to him on why you would suggest a machine that costs twice as much is a good move. For what it is worth I agree totally...

Good point jess. Wink
Welding AC only is quite tough for a novice welder to learn on. The alternating current produces a very erratic arc and the end results are less than desirable for lack of a better word.
Welding DC is a much smoother arc and a lot easier to control, you are also afforded a much larger rod selection that can be used in different positions.
My machine has never seen the AC side I run DC reverse 99% of the time, the other 1% is DC Positive.
Trying to resell the machine if things do not work out will be a lot easier than an AC only machine.
I am sure I missed some points but this should get the ball rolling. Very Happy


KAM think ya got it backwards DC reverse is DCEP, which is what most SMAW electrodes run. DC straight is DCEN.

I am not sure what you think I have backwards MongoNC, my wording was a bit off I apologize for that.
Most of my welding is DC reverse (DCEP) which allows me more penetration in my work.
I sometimes will switch to DC straight (DCEN) (I should have said straight instead of positive). when welding thin sheet metal.

Straight from Millers website, they explain it easier than I can. Very Happy
DC welding offers advantages over AC for most Stick applications, including: easier starts; fewer arc outages and sticking; less spatter/better looking welds; easier vertical up and overhead welding; easier to learn "how to weld" and a smoother arc. DC reverse polarity (electrode positive) provides about 10 percent more penetration at a given amperage than AC, while DC straight polarity (electrode negative) welds thinner metals better.
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Wreckless
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12 14 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW...I have a Lincoln AC225. A handy tool to have for sure. With an almost constant breeze here, my mig just does not like it much outside. Mat'l just not as clean as I would prefer, the 6011 is my go to rod. However, as k.a.m. mentioned via Miller welding web site, even for the experienced or semi experienced welder used to running DCEP, you may soon find yourself a bit frustrated trying to repeat your weld quality with an AC only machine. Moreso with a beginner welder, the rods tend to stick more often, vertical up is almost a no go, being alternating current, one will find the weld puddle jumping side to side in the weld seam. Am I glad to have my AC machine? Yes. Would I trade it for a DC machine? In a heart beat. Want to start joining metal to metal straight from the get go. Get a mig. A gas shield if possible. One more FWIW...Purchase an auto darkening hood, even if only an el cheapo. Climbing inside a work project ( in most cases here, a firebox and / or main cooker) with a live stick electrode and a non auto dark hood is not for the feint of heart or anyone hoping to watch the sunset that evening. It will prolly find one investing heavily in the JB Weld corporation.
JM$.02 worth.
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