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Offset Vs. Vertical smoker
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Alien BBQ
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 07 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: O I started this discussion and I am almost sorry. Reply with quote

ClayBBQ wrote:
I am not going to use any ones name, because I am really only interested in the differences in a vertical versus horizontal smokers. Obviously there are differences, such as,
Material consumption - wood, charcoal or both
Different direction of heat or whatever we call it
Something about biscuits
All smokers can make really good Q
Most people wonder about the other types of smokers- I think we need a lend lease program. Alien can you work that out?
I really like all the scientific terms , I am going to try to work them in my next conversation at work- they already think I have gone around the bend over Q
Could anyone else remember some of the salient points from this discussion? I think we need to have some type of closure. ( I hate that sentence, what the hell is closure? I don't know, btw don't want to know) I just want to know about vertical versus horizontal Laughing Thanks


Clay, just get you one of these and you got the answer! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy BOTH are the best!


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Hogwild
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: Hastings, NE

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 07 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: O I started this discussion and I am almost sorry. Reply with quote

Hogwild wrote:
ClayBBQ wrote:
.....I don't know, btw don't want to know) I just want to know about vertical versus horizontal Laughing Thanks


Well, we all now that verticals are junk. Wink But, then you got to worry about which side your firebox is on your horizontal. Don't buy one of those left-handed smokers. Everybody and their dog knows that heat goes from right to left. Wink Razz Razz


C'mon guys!! That right the was funny......or maybe not.
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markalbob
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03 07 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBOGGS wrote:
BoilermakerFan wrote:
This coming from a hobby smoker that has only been smoking for 6 years, has no competition experience, or catering experience? Rolling Eyes ..

Hey BoilermakerFan, do you understand how arrogant this statement is? Since you dont know me or my cooking form a cake of soap, you're saying that hands down you can beat anybody, anywhere with your cooking. You're saying that unless you have more experience and compete in BBQ competition you cant possibly know whether heat rises or not. I have to assume you dont need to compete anymore since you know without even cooking that anybody you're up against your going to beat and take first prize. RIGHT?

You know what dude; you've been drinking way too many boilermakers and you must have fried your brain.

I knew a guy some years ago that was a hobby target shooter and when he would go to the range all the police would bring their handguns to him and ask him to shot theirs for them so they could see if the problem was them or the gun. That guy could put 6 shots in one hole no matter whose gun he fired and could shoot 5 bowling pins 3 feet back off a table, drawing from his holster in 5 seconds beating every shooter in the league; he did that the first night he shot pins, the first time he was up. That kind of shames your argument on experience.

I dont care how many posts you've got, I dont care how long you've been smoking, I dont care where you compete or what kind of catering business you think you have. If you dont even know heat rises and argue against the laws of nature; it's you that's the idiot. Ask my neighbors.

All my life I've found that people who argue senselessly and brag about how good they are ain't for crap. It's kind of like rich people never have to tell anyone how rich they are; just the poor people do that. And I'm guessing you're pretty poor.



Dude, you're just unpleasant to deal with....I'm leaning in your direction (verticals) and I still wince about folks even THINKING I'm affiliated with you because of the way you come off. I've lost count (had to run and vomit) of the number of times you called other folks you know nothing about "stupid" simply because they aren't in lock-step with you. And as Alien pointed out, you are cherry-picking your thermodynamics laws by trying to apply them as absolutes when differing conditions such as an enclosed firebox where air can only vent sideways will obviously affect them.

I'd like to see you stay around, I think everyone has something of value to add, but if this is how it is, I'll take the "poor folks" in a heartbeat. Seriously.


Alien, on a happier note, you have multiple pits--knowing whatever you say will largely be your personal experience, and there's still no absolutes, I'd like your opinions on the ease of use, efficiency, temperment, and overall results and flavor/smoke from all 3 (if you've tried all 3) of the following:

offset

vertical water-smoker

vertical BDS-type waterless


It would seem the educated opinions of a guy who's tried them all would be more useful than calling each other morons and suggesting somebody stand in a fire. Rolling Eyes
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smooookin
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04 07 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: O I started this discussion and I am almost sorry. Reply with quote

Hogwild wrote:
ClayBBQ wrote:
.....I don't know, btw don't want to know) I just want to know about vertical versus horizontal Laughing Thanks


Well, we all now that verticals are junk. Wink But, then you got to worry about which side your firebox is on your horizontal. Don't buy one of those left-handed smokers. Everybody and their dog knows that heat goes from right to left. Wink Razz Razz



dam, no wonder i am having so much trouble, my darn firebox is on the wrong side.
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15474
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 07 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief almightly! Shocked I can't believe I missed getting in on this one! Rolling Eyes

I think all smokers are just crap, I'm gonna go stick my head in the oven and call it even! Laughing

In all seriousness, will look foward to contibuting at the new thread on this topic.

Just remember fellas, we are suppossed to be here for fun! Very Happy Speaking of fun, everyone brings joy to the party- some when they arrive, and some when they leave! Wink Mr. Green
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OddThomas
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 07 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBQMAN wrote:
Good grief almightly! Shocked I can't believe I missed getting in on this one! Rolling Eyes


It's OK BBQMAN, you were tied up with me in the credit card convenience charge thread. LOL!!! Very Happy

Best regards,
Mike W.
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 07 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least that was constructive! Wink Very Happy

Thanks for the advice, I am in the process of correcting it! Very Happy
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Underdog
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05 07 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't have all that much experiance to really debate the issue but here's my thoughts for what it's worth. My first attemts at smoking were with a 60 dollar Brinkman vertical charcoal water smoker from Wally World. The experiance with this POC was enough to make me wanna quit. It never could hold any heat cause you had to open the whole front door to add fuel which was about every hour cause the charcoal pan was too small. I built a larger charcoal pan for it but it was still a real pain in the butt to regulate. I then bought a Chargriller and did the mods as recommended on here. This setup is lightyears better than that first fiasco that is still sitting forlornly on my deck.
My point is not wether offset is better than vertical but it is more about the design & quality of the unit. I had a junk vertical, had I started with say a WSM, perhaps my opinion would be different and I may not have ended up with the Chargriller. I think if it's a good unit, either will produce good Q. Of course the biggest variable (as with most anything) is the skill of the person useing it.
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BBQMAN
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06 07 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the new thread on this topic Underdog! Very Happy
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johno



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09 07 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am going to sit down with pencil paper rule protractor and so on and design myself a smoker at 45 degrees to the perpendicular , question is the best firebox placement need to think that one out for a while,
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WBOGGS
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Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBOGGS wrote:
allsmokenofire wrote:
WBOGGS wrote:
allsmokenofire wrote:
Russ, I tend to agree with you, but you might want to consider the fact that he might not be from this universe. Wink

Laughing Laughing Laughing

Absolutely right so tell us what universe you're from? The facts you're trying to belittle me on are absolutely true; have you not self respect at all to try and discredit it?

If heat were water you would be absolutely right and you would fill a space with heat from the side and it would flow across till it hit a wall then go up. You ought to sue your grade school science teacher for negligence.


Congratulations on your 100th post. So much gibberesh in such a short amount of time....you should be proud. Confused

Look I know you guys are having a terrible time understanding; vtbbq just tried to tell me that scientist disagree that heat rises it jsut goes up because it's less dense air. Who'da thunk anyone could come up with a revelation like that. There should be some kind of special science award for that one. LMAO, LMAO, LMAO Laughing Laughing Laughing


Awww what happened to the original post by vtbbq about scientists disagreeing that heat rises but rather goes up because its less dense? I was telling a buddy about this thread and he couldn't believe so many people were so stupid about how heat travels.

You guys take all the fun out of having been here; when you engage in such stupidity you want to be able to prove how stupid they really were and the evidence is gone but for my reference. Dang!!!
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markalbob
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugh, come on wboggs....obviously you've dome some reading, but for what it's worth I work with dozens of PhDs every day (and yes, I also have one) and despite the fact most of them are fairly smart, less than 1% are this obnoxious about it. I don't know if you want to chalk that up as humulity or being smart enough to realize your own limitations or simple politeness, but you're sorely lacking in one of the 3.

And since you keep returning to the "heat rises, d@##it!" rant, after others have pointed out there are exceptions which make a difference and are applied to offsets, I'm thinking an overabundance of smarts isn't exactly the problem here, any more than an overabundance of courtesy.
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mds2
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Joined: 10 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of my just built a shop. He is so crazy that he put radiant heat heaters on his ceiling! Man he might as well of just pissed down he leg. Everyone knows that he doesnt radiate.
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBOGGS wrote:
Awww what happened to the original post by vtbbq about scientists disagreeing that heat rises but rather goes up because its less dense? I was telling a buddy about this thread and he couldn't believe so many people were so stupid about how heat travels.

You guys take all the fun out of having been here; when you engage in such stupidity you want to be able to prove how stupid they really were and the evidence is gone but for my reference. Dang!!!


Wow, looks like someone is really begging for some attention again...batten down the hatches guys, maybe his meds will come in over the weekend. Wink

I'm willing to admit though, when it comes to "hot air" WB seems to be full of it. Laughing
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WBOGGS
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markalbob wrote:
ugh, come on wboggs....obviously you've dome some reading, but for what it's worth I work with dozens of PhDs every day (and yes, I also have one) and despite the fact most of them are fairly smart, less than 1% are this obnoxious about it. I don't know if you want to chalk that up as humulity or being smart enough to realize your own limitations or simple politeness, but you're sorely lacking in one of the 3.

And since you keep returning to the "heat rises, d@##it!" rant, after others have pointed out there are exceptions which make a difference and are applied to offsets, I'm thinking an overabundance of smarts isn't exactly the problem here, any more than an overabundance of courtesy.

I didn't come back to get any attention; I was genuinely disappointed that vtbbq deleted that stupid post. I thought it was a classic example of what you can usually get on bigger Forums where some people make a lot of posts and that, in and of itself, makes them experts in so many peoples minds. Yet they make the most ridiculous statements and I really wanted to copy that post and send it to a friend.

Did someone mention courtesy, whole crap; there isn't a speck of courtesy on this forum. You post the simplest of the rules of nature and a dozen idiots slam you right out of the gate proving their incompetence then keep saying heat doesn't rise, "even scientists know it doesn't rise, it goes up because it's lighter than air" (I'll never forget that one).

But dont worry though, I still get to refer people to this thread to witness for themselves the destructive power of the male ego; to watch as people dig their heals in till their legs are ground down to their butts. But I know how you people can be; it feels much better to keep saying your right so long as a bunch of other idiots agree with you no matter how wrong you all are. That is personal growth just like a weed grows; just above the surface of the dirt.

So quite frankly, in the beginning I was excited to stumble across this forum again with it's new format but the quality of people posting are a far cry from the old message board. When the Moderators allow big numbered posters to become arrogant bullies is when a forum becomes like a nuisance gang bar of thugs. There's so little to learn here it's not worth searching through all the people blowing sunshine up each others a$$e$ with bull crap. Knowledge becomes seriously squelched by the ignorant bullies who fight about everything they dont understand.

So ta, ta again boys; fight on......
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allsmokenofire
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...bye Rolling Eyes
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28 07 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBOGGS wrote:
When the Moderators allow big numbered posters to become arrogant bullies is when a forum becomes like a nuisance gang bar of thugs. There's so little to learn here it's not worth searching through all the people blowing sunshine up each others a$$e$ with bull crap. Knowledge becomes seriously squelched by the ignorant bullies who fight about everything they dont understand.

So ta, ta again boys; fight on......


As the only Moderator here I take umbrage at this comment.

I have not got a mandate from Garry; to slap posters down, neither big numbered posters nor medium numbered posters.

I have a mandate to deleted spam, I could edit anyone’s posts, but I have only done so to do things like shorten URLs, so the board doesn't need to be scrolled across, each time I have notified the poster concerned, and all have so far understood the reasons behind the edit. It is not my job to edit other posts that disagree or argue or try discuss anything with you, I won't do it, I even left your posts alone with their bullying attitude to everyone else, and to the only moderator on the board.

I will though miss some of your observations and useful information.
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Grumpy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17 09 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...

This seems to be a pattern with Boggsie... every Forum he's on he's right and everyone else is wrong.

Careful though, if you pi$$ him off he'll flood your USPS mailbox with magazine subscriptions... Laughing
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aks801
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17 09 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, this was sure one epic border skirmish.

I can understand being passionate about what you do, but keeping some perspective seems to be a real challenge for some folks.
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daddywoofdawg
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17 09 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an offset and like it. I also like the idea of loading up the meat getting the coals going and go drink some beers with the rest of the comp.and coming back checking the temp and sleeping and not have to mess with the fire till I get up(vertical).If there was a GF offset I would make a clone.Next..I tried to smoke some sushi and it ended up turning into smoked fish.LOL
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