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aging beef
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Ts BBQ



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 12:00 am    Post subject: aging beef Reply with quote

We are getting a half of a beef done at our local butcher. What is the minimum and maximum time for aging? Will the longer you age it make the meat more tender?

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mrblue
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have aged 30 and 21 days before, you will lose weight on it the longer you age it. . I personally like 14 days , seems to work good for me..
lot of beef is wet aged in the cryovac form at the warehouses instead of dry aged.
everyone has a different opinion on the aging thing,, good luckwith it..
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever had a dry-aged premuim beef? Some people do not care for the robust flavor of a great dry-aged steak.

When I order beef for the restaurant, I refuse shipments that are less than 21 days (wet-aged in cryovac). but I only deal with 109 primes (ribs & fat-cap attached) and whole strip-loins

I would get all your normal cuts whichever way your beef guy says will be best for you.(if you trust your meat guy, he knows best) and at least try half of the short-loin (Porterhouse area) dry aged before he slices it into 1.5 inch steaks for you.

You will either love it or hate it, I personally love dry aged beef, while the wife does not like it at all.

Basically all dry aging pertains is letting the nautral enzymes in the beef break down the connective tissue, there is a huge weight loss and some product loss associated with dry aging, but it develops a flavor that is worth it for me.
But you got to have a "choice or better" product to start with. what people consider prime beef these days, would have barely made the select grade 20 years ago. is this from a local producer/butcher? or is this meat being bought from a large distributor. there is a chance you might see prime beef if this is produced by a farm that specializes in prime beef.

At least do a little further research an meat grading so you can identify prime from select (it is the ribeye marbling percentage that mostly decides the grade among other things)

Good luck, and where are you going to store 600 pounds of meat??
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many people dont really know the true beauty of GRADE PRIME Very Happy
If ya ever want to impress someone with your steak grilling style.. gets some grade prime and you will never go wrong...
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Hogwild
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some good info on aging. I got it from the BBQ Guy Blog this week and linked it on my blog. I'm seriously considering wet aging some brisket.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hogwild wrote:
Here is some good info on aging. I got it from the BBQ Guy Blog this week and linked it on my blog. I'm seriously considering wet aging some brisket.


I think that would almost be like putting perfume on a pig,

I am willing to bet the brisket you get has already got 3 weeks on it. The brisket is a tough nasty piece of meat from day one.( compared to the sirloin & top-rib cuts) That is why we have devoted part of our life and spent countless hours & money in rubs, smokers, & wood to prepare it properly low & slow to make it edible.

I would be curious to taste your results though, But I do not think you will gain anything. That is why the brisket has always been either corned, smoked, or braised. you never see these tpes of preparation on the better cuts that can benefit from aging.

of course this is only my opinion and I could be proven very very wrong.
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Hogwild
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
Hogwild wrote:
Here is some good info on aging. I got it from the BBQ Guy Blog this week and linked it on my blog. I'm seriously considering wet aging some brisket.


I think that would almost be like putting perfume on a pig,
.....


I don't know. Like you said, aging breaks down the connective tissue, etc., of which brisket has plenty, so it may help. I know Smokin' Okie does (or has) wet age his briskets. Maybe he'll see this and chime in.

Why would the brisket be 21 days old? it's taken off the cow the same time as everything else. By that logic, everything at the supermarket should be aged well. You may be right, though....I don't know.
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allsmokenofire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure wet aging a brisket works better than you might think, but I can't remember why I think that. Shocked

Of course, I'm not at liberty to say if I've tried it, or if I haven't, or if I know of anyone who has or does.

You might give it a shot and see. If you do, rumor has it that one would want to have a dedicated fridge for it(at least one that isn't accessed very often) and the temp needs to be under 38*....but you know how rumors go. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike....ummmm, have you heard any rumors about keeping a brisket packed in ice for a couple weeks? Reason I ask is I've got a cooler that will keep ice for a few days....it'd be cheaper to change out the ice a couple times than buyin' a fridge to try it out.... Wink Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hogwild wrote:
Hey Mike....ummmm, have you heard any rumors about keeping a brisket packed in ice for a couple weeks? Reason I ask is I've got a cooler that will keep ice for a few days....it'd be cheaper to change out the ice a couple times than buyin' a fridge to try it out.... Wink Very Happy


Allegedly, best time frame for wet aging is 30-45 days from the kill date. Each case of brisket shipped from the packer supposedly has the kill date stamped on the outside of the box. You'll want to know this date so you can age accordingly, I would guess. Assuming it's got a couple weeks age on it by the time you purchase it, I'd think that would be an awful lot of ice swapping to try it in a cooler if you go the whole 30 days. However, if you could keep it cold enough, I don't see why it wouldn't work in a cooler, I just see the fridge as being a safer bet.

...but the mind just ain't what it used to be. Wink
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Hogwild
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Mike. I may have to look into a small fridge for the garage.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give it a shot, with the low cost of brisket really not much to lose. I know a dry-age on a brisket would probably render it useless and dry as plywood due to its thickness (or lack of it)

Maybe place a thermometer in the farthest depths in the back of your fridge, so there isn't much variance in temp from the normal door opening.
See if the butcher can give an accurate kill date. keep it in the processor's cryovac, and see what happens.
But remember, if the brisket has ever been frozen, it will not age properly. And I highly doubt the brisket we see at a supermarket has never been frozen. so that might be a limiting factor too. So that alone might be the deal breaker on trying this.

So, talking about tenderness, has anyone ever asked for brisket from only the left side of the cow?
I am almost sure everyone has heard of that theory.

we sure are an odd bunch. aren't we?
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mrblue
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have cut meat for many years, and i have never had someone ask for a brisket from the left side....bout 90 percent sure. even though i have heard that.. . but i have searched many many many boxes for people till i found they one they wanted.. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry,

I'm still wondering why you think the brisket is treated differently after slaughter compared to the rest of the cuts. Why would it be frozen and the rest of the cow not frozen, or like I asked earlier, why would it be older at the counter than the rest of the animal? All the cuts are (mostly) going to the same places....
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mrblue
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lot of your beef is all pre sold i believe.. when i worked up in colorado we could barley get packer trim briskets and Skirt steak cause it was already pre sold for further down south.. Least that is what our meat buyers would tell us... i have seen just about every piece of meat come in frozen at one time or another.... but there are more stringent guide lines on dates and such over the past few years..
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hogwild wrote:
Harry,

I'm still wondering why you think the brisket is treated differently after slaughter compared to the rest of the cuts. Why would it be frozen and the rest of the cow not frozen, or like I asked earlier, why would it be older at the counter than the rest of the animal? All the cuts are (mostly) going to the same places....


I did not state that only the brisket gets frozen,

chances are that 99% of the meat we see at our local supermarkets have been frozen between slaughter and you buying that cut of meat. Just becuase it is in a non-frozen state on display does not mean it has never been frozen.
FDA regulations do not require food to be marked as frozen, or previously frozen until it gets below something like 0 degree's. last time I checked all the "Fresh" chicken at the store had ice crytals in it.

once the meat is below 32 degrees all beneficial aging ceases and the process cannot be re-started by thawing.
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mrblue
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are correct harry, i dont think they consider it frozen unless it is brought down to a colder temp and held as you stated.. cause it can def. be advertised as fresh and still be hard enough to knock you out Very Happy
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subcooling
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:


So, talking about tenderness, has anyone ever asked for brisket from only the left side of the cow?
I am almost sure everyone has heard of that theory.



please explain the theory for us laymen. i have never heard about this.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

subcooling wrote:
Harry Nutczak wrote:


So, talking about tenderness, has anyone ever asked for brisket from only the left side of the cow?
I am almost sure everyone has heard of that theory.



please explain the theory for us laymen. i have never heard about this.

I copied and saved this from another Forum:

Here is the story about the left handed brisket:

A few year back at the Texas State Finals, lovingly know as the "Meridian", several of us early birds would arrive on Thursday to get in line for the first come first serve pick of the best cook sites, to chosen on Friday.
Thursday night was devoted to serious drinking hoping to pry secret tips out of other cooks.
One of the better cooks there was ole Connie Baker of team "Li'l Pit Of Heaven". He was throwing back quite a few of those Mexican beers with a chunk of lime stuck in the neck of the bottle.
Connie had so many of them lime aid beers that he was starting to smile with a pucker. As a matter of fact some of the strangers started to cook away and look at him kind of funny.
This was when I figured that ole Connie was ripe for the prying of secrets. One of us asked him how come his brisket was so tender and always placed in the top three.
I thought to myself, boy oh boy, if loose lips sink ships then Ole Connie is going down tonight. All got quiet as he stuffed another lime in a long neck and said that he only cooks left handed briskets.
He explained that most, but not all, steers rest on their left side, which means when they get up they have to push harder with their right legs.
At this point about half of the bunch murmured something to the effect of Bull Hockey and went back to their 4 or 5 different conversations.
A few of us noticed that ole Connie wasn't smirking. Hmmm, was he onto something? Two or three of us moved closer and I told him you can't stop there. What does pushing up with their right legs have to do with the left brisket.
Ole Connie stuffed another lime and told us that when they push up with the right legs it flexes the right brisket muscle more so than the left. Therefore the right handed brisket will be tougher and less marbled than the left, not always but usually.
Most everyone had written Connie off as a bull sheeter and not paying much attention to me and Connie. I had to know more and asked him how the heck do you tell a left handed brisket from the right.
As expected he stuffed another lime and I mixed another Makers. He then told me that with the fat side down, on a left handed brisket, the point will curve to the right.
Saturday awards time rolled around and Connie took 1st brisket and Grand Champ over 180+ of the best cooks in Texas. His next stop was gonna be the American Royal.
I think that I came in 19th with my right handed brisket. I just could not get this left handed brisket thing off my mind. When we got home Sunday afternoon I stopped to look at the cows. Four were laying down and 3 were on their left side.
Welp, I have been raising a few head of cattle for 24 years and this got me to thinking about what ole Connie had spilled out to us that night. I phoned the kin folk in LaGrange, Texas and told them the story and asked if they would check out their herd.
Yep, you guessed it. Only 3 out of 37 consistently rested on their right side.
Dangnation, Connie has got it going big time. I went to 5 different grocery stores and flexed briskets to see which sides were more limber and which ones were more marbled.
I have found that there are exceptions to every rule. There are some right handed briskets that are more limber and marbled than the lefties but for the most part I find that the majority of the best pick comes from the left handed pile of briskets.
Another exception to the rule is that you can find a Prime Grade quality brisket that is marked Select and a Select grade marked Choice.
My rule of thumb is Flexibility and Marbleing. Evenness on the flat end is a plus. I'm going to inspect the lefties before I move on to the right handed ones.
Welp, there it is folks. Take it or leave it. As Jack used to say in the 1950's Drag Net T-V Detective Show, "only the facts mam".

Pigman
Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
Hogwild wrote:
Harry,

I'm still wondering why you think the brisket is treated differently after slaughter compared to the rest of the cuts. Why would it be frozen and the rest of the cow not frozen, or like I asked earlier, why would it be older at the counter than the rest of the animal? All the cuts are (mostly) going to the same places....


I did not state that only the brisket gets frozen,

chances are that 99% of the meat we see at our local supermarkets have been frozen between slaughter and you buying that cut of meat. Just becuase it is in a non-frozen state on display does not mean it has never been frozen.
FDA regulations do not require food to be marked as frozen, or previously frozen until it gets below something like 0 degree's. last time I checked all the "Fresh" chicken at the store had ice crytals in it.

once the meat is below 32 degrees all beneficial aging ceases and the process cannot be re-started by thawing.

I'm not positive but if a meat has been previously frozen, the package must say so so you know how you can handle it. You're not supposed to refreeze meats.
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