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aging beef
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mrblue
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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Weatherford,tx

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what they call frozen is different than what we might call frozen..
little ice and hard bird doesnt mean frozen to them..
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Hogwild
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: Hastings, NE

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
Hogwild wrote:
Harry,

I'm still wondering why you think the brisket is treated differently after slaughter compared to the rest of the cuts. Why would it be frozen and the rest of the cow not frozen, or like I asked earlier, why would it be older at the counter than the rest of the animal? All the cuts are (mostly) going to the same places....


I did not state that only the brisket gets frozen,

chances are that 99% of the meat we see at our local supermarkets have been frozen between slaughter and you buying that cut of meat. Just becuase it is in a non-frozen state on display does not mean it has never been frozen.
FDA regulations do not require food to be marked as frozen, or previously frozen until it gets below something like 0 degree's. last time I checked all the "Fresh" chicken at the store had ice crytals in it.

once the meat is below 32 degrees all beneficial aging ceases and the process cannot be re-started by thawing.


Sorry, I must have been hung up on your 21 day old brisket.

99% of the meat is a pretty bold statement. I'd bet my bottom dollar it's not that much. I agree that some (or maybe even most, I don't know) of it surely is.

Also, how do you know aging can't start up again after a light freeze. I know a little bit about enzymes and bacteria and most of them can survive a slight, short term freeze.

Another question (for anybody, but I bet mrblue knows): When a packer ages a cow, is the brisket not still attached??? I know they usually half the carcass before aging, but do they cut the brisket or anything else off. Basically, when you get 14 or 21 d aged Angus, was the brisket not still attached??
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Harry Nutczak
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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Location: The Northwoods

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly what MrBlue has stated,

What we consider frozen, is not considered frozen by the packing houses and the FDA for labeling laws.

here is a quote i pulled from the USDA site;

The word "fresh" may not be used to describe:

Any cured product, e.g., corned beef, smoked cured turkey or prosciutto.
Any canned, hermetically sealed shelf stable, dried, or chemically preserved product.
Any raw poultry, poultry part, or any edible portion thereof whose internal temperature has ever been below 26 degrees Fahrenheit.
Any injected, basted, marinated poultry, poultry part or any edible portion thereof whose internal temperature has ever been below 26 degrees Fahrenheit.
Any other finished processed poultry product (including cooked poultry products) where its temperature has ever been below 26 degrees Fahrenheit, e.g., turkey sausage, chicken meatballs, cooked breaded chicken nuggets, etc.
Any uncured red meat product permitted to be treated with a substance that delays discoloration, such as, ascorbic acid, erythorbic acid, or citric acid.
Any product treated with an antimicrobial substance or irradiated.
The phrase "never frozen" or similar verbiage is not permitted on an unprocessed or processed poultry product where the internal temperature of the product has ever been below 0 degrees Fahrenheit or on any red meat product that has ever been frozen. Further, the phrase "never frozen" or similar verbiage is not permitted on refrigerated secondary products where the meat or poultry component has ever been frozen, e.g., multi-component meals, dinners, etc.


Generally, trademarks, company names, fanciful names, etc., containing the word "fresh" are acceptable, even on products produced in a manner described in one through seven above, provided the term is used in such a manner that it remains clear to the purchaser that the product is not fresh.

Secondary products, e.g., pizza, multi-component meals, dinners, etc., sold in the refrigerated state, i.e., not frozen or previously frozen, may be labeled as "fresh" when the term is used to describe the product as a whole even when made from components processed in a manner described in one through seven above.



so, 26 degrees is the magic number. But at 27 degrees it is solid as a rock!!
and I consider that FROZEN! there is also some confusing sentences in there that mention zero degrees.

here is my source;
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Regulations_&_Policies/Labeling_Fresh_Not_Frozen/index.asp

And i found this of interest too;
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Beef_from_Farm_to_Table/index.asp
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Hogwild
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Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry,

I understand about the regulatory "freezing" temp. I still don't think they are going to freeze the majority of meet that goes to the stores/butchers. It costs money to freeze it and I would think they would just as soon get it out of their facilities as keep it around.

I'm still curious about these questions if anybody has an answer:

Hogwild wrote:
........

Also, how do you know aging can't start up again after a light freeze. I know a little bit about enzymes and bacteria and most of them can survive a slight, short term freeze.

Another question (for anybody, but I bet mrblue knows): When a packer ages a cow, is the brisket not still attached??? I know they usually half the carcass before aging, but do they cut the brisket or anything else off. Basically, when you get 14 or 21 d aged Angus, was the brisket not still attached??

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mrblue
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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
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Location: Weatherford,tx

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 07 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hogwild, i am not 100% on how every place does it really,. Nothing that is physically attached to the carcass would normally be cut off till it is all took apart in a matter of minutes.. and i believe they wet age most all beef just becuase of the weight loss dry aging..
as far as freezing beef- after frozen its not gonna have that "pretty look" shelf life as long as a piece of beef that has not been frozen.... So if they were gonna run a real "HOT" add- that is when you will see alot of partially frozen products.( and not always like that )(just when they buy alot or was made a good deal from the packer)
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