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I think we have lost sight of what the "Competition
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok GENTLEMEN!

In the red corner we have all those how know how to cook bbq the “right way”, and in the blue corner, we have all those how know how to bbq the “right way.”

I want this to be a good clean fight, no hitting below the belt, biting, kicking, gouging, scratching, or name-calling please!

Touch gloves, return to your corners, and come out fighting when the bell rings!
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK SoEzzy, round? ding!

I only did three KCBS comps last season. I got three calls and a DAL. I'll do six this season. This is not a quantum physics learning curve here. I still have more to learn but geez, if you have a good smoking foundation, it ain't that hard. With the info on this forum, it makes it even easier.

That FAB thread is very pertinent to competition BBQ. If you don't think so, you are blind. Just look at the hard feelings it stirred up on this small group. Go out at a comp and speak to a wide range of teams and get their opinions on these products.

That thread showed more about the direction comps are heading than many I see on here. I saw all the hot buttons: juicing, gas, pellets, DAL chicken, electricity, idiot CBJs. What more do you want?
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Lewis & Herschel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is pertinent, at least the question was when it was asked several weeks ago. I think it is more pertinent as it pertains to those that have used it versus those that haven't. Or those that could tell him if they are shipping it or not.

People have been using their own versions of this for sometime. It is not a new development. Beef and Chicken boullion are basically the same thing. MSG enhanced flavor.

I just see this place as one to argue whether Fab B is beneficial to your team versus the entire philosophy of what teams do on tour. Or if it should even be legal.

It will be impossible for any league to ban cures and MSG. Many of the good teams that market rubs, have MSG in them over the counter.

The latest I have read on MSG says it is better for you than salt. After they ban that, do they move on to sauces with High Fructose Corn Syrup, limit the amount of salt in brines, or do away with other meat tenderizers?

You can argue these things to death, but I will continue to compete looking for the perfect piece of Q. Out side of reviewing the products in question, I see no reason to debate the philosophy of them on tour(if you are not on it or looking to be on it).
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
People have been using their own versions of this for sometime. It is not a new development. Beef and Chicken boullion are basically the same thing. MSG enhanced flavor.


I know this should be on the FAB thread but I'm not going to further that argument. But what most people on here don't understand about FAB type products is that it has nothing to do with the MSG. FAB is not about MSG you could take it out and it would only lack the flavor enhancing properties. Why everyone is using FAB is for the moisture enhancing benefits. Now I hope by explaining this I'm not labeled a drug dealer again.
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sseige
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess that kinda sets me on the right track......................................
Quote "I see no reason to debate the philosophy of them on tour(if you are not on it or looking to be on it)".............................................................
But what Tour and what number of events make a tour? If its more than one I guess BBQ Man your out and I only do one and its a gas only so I guess I'm out but I do have the words Touring Team in my team name (BillyBones BBQ US Touring Team) does that count? Confused
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Last edited by sseige on Wed Apr 25 07 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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allsmokenofire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoEzzy wrote:
Ok GENTLEMEN!

In the red corner we have all those how know how to cook bbq the “right way”, and in the blue corner, we have all those how know how to bbq the “right way.”

I want this to be a good clean fight, no hitting below the belt, biting, kicking, gouging, scratching, or name-calling please!

Touch gloves, return to your corners, and come out fighting when the bell rings!


LMAO.....now THAT'S funny!! Laughing Laughing


DING DING!!
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for noticing allsmokenofire! Wink

I, and I'm sure 95% of the members have no problem with discussion on any point, but although discussion and argument are only a couple of steps apart, when the name-calling starts, (from either side), it is surely time to back up and look at what we are doing, or at least trying to do.

If there is going to be acrimonious feelings from both sides, to the point that someone may burst a major blood vessel, I think it is time to ask folks to step back, and think about the effect that our words have on each other!

The written word is so much harder to gauge than the spoken word, people say things in writing that they would think twice about saying to ones face, and that can lead to the level of feelings, that make people respond in ways they know they wouldn’t like having put in their own face.

My Grandma used to say, "Discuss everything, fight over few things!"

Are these things worth discussing? Yes they are. Are they worth fighting about? I don’t think so!

All that being said, I am a firm believer in everybodies right to stick their own foot in their mouth should they choose to do so. Have at it guys!
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Lewis & Herschel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJim, thank you for taking the time to tell us about what you are making. It will be on the tour so I want to know about it. The prople that made the accusations that you are like a "Drug Dealer" are the ones I pointed this thread at. Look out, they will be hitting you up for advertising anytime now. Thank you for posting something constructive.

SSiege, if you are competing this year or down the road, you are welcome to comment(I have said that all along). That is what its for. I just don't want a valuable tool for what we do to turn into a lets bash competition and competitors thread. Heck, someone accused BigJim of being a "drug dealer". That is not right.

Once you get out there and do a few competitions, you may see things differently. That's all. I don't want advice on a Stumps from someone that has never used one, nor do I want advice on FAB B by someone that has never used it.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25 07 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a very interesting topic for sure. It seems that the desire to win at any cost has hit BBQ as it does with every other form sport or competition. I just hope I never have to pee in a cup before I can compete. Wink

I believe that if ya have to use things to inhance your product in an unnatural way you should go back and spend more time learning to make better BBQ rather than resorting cutting corners. I agree with Allsmoke that it is a crap shoot with most competitions. I for one enjoy the thrill of competing and I spend a lot of time working on trying to get the cooking method and flavours down just right. As a judge and competitor I have seen some teams injecting their briskets and butts, I dont feel I need to and at my first competiton there was not a lot of points between them and our scores.

I have only competed in one professional event and I hope that I never have to resort to use methods at competition that I would not use when making food for my family and if that means never getting another call then I will be happy to clap for the ones that do.
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DawgPhan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont why everyone thinks that using these products means you cant cook. I doubt anyone wants to tell Fast Eddy, drBBQ, or I Smell Smoke that they dont know how to cook bbq and should go back and learn. All of them are fairly forthcoming with their use of the FAB products...

Using any legal option to improve your product doesnt mean you cant cook. I dont know where that notion came from, but again it just simply isnt true.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjim4x wrote:
Quote:
People have been using their own versions of this for sometime. It is not a new development. Beef and Chicken bouillon are basically the same thing. MSG enhanced flavor.


I know this should be on the FAB thread but I'm not going to further that argument. But what most people on here don't understand about FAB type products is that it has nothing to do with the MSG. FAB is not about MSG you could take it out and it would only lack the flavor enhancing properties. Why everyone is using FAB is for the moisture enhancing benefits. Now I hope by explaining this I'm not labeled a drug dealer again.



Here is the ingredient list for the fab products,

I have used bold-type for the ingredients that are MSG under a different name, so tell me how it is not about the MSG! and I used red to show the boosters used to supercharge the MSG content, It acts like a catalyst for the MSG to increase its effect. and thickeners are in blue
and sodium phosphate is a trick to retain moisture in foods. Ans Trisodium phosphate is commonly used as a toilet-bowl cleaner!! Hmm, if I ever was given a brisket that contained any of these ingredients, that is exactly where it would go! and it might clean my toilet to boot!!
A veritable chemical cocktail,

Seriously guys, I though of you competition guys as BBQ-gods up until I realized the crap you do to win that almighty trophy. I wish you would have all stuck with trying to get briskets from only the left side of the cow (another funny story)

Very much like someone really liking a certain celebrity, but upon meeting that celebrity in person to only find out they are a rude asshole and all your best thoughts of them are crushed!!
Now do you understand why this bothers me so much?

I used to almost idolize you guys for what you did, But now I know the truth!

FAB B
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, vegetable oil (soybean and or corn, cottonseed), sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

FAB B Lite
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, vegetable oil (soybean and or corn, cottonseed), sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

FAB C
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and peanut oils, sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.
FAB P

Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and peanut oils, sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

I see no spices or seasoning in any of these ingredients. why is that?
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Lewis & Herschel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
Bigjim4x wrote:
Quote:
People have been using their own versions of this for sometime. It is not a new development. Beef and Chicken bouillon are basically the same thing. MSG enhanced flavor.


I know this should be on the FAB thread but I'm not going to further that argument. But what most people on here don't understand about FAB type products is that it has nothing to do with the MSG. FAB is not about MSG you could take it out and it would only lack the flavor enhancing properties. Why everyone is using FAB is for the moisture enhancing benefits. Now I hope by explaining this I'm not labeled a drug dealer again.



Here is the ingredient list for the fab products,

I have used bold-type for the ingredients that are MSG under a different name, so tell me how it is not about the MSG! and I used red to show the boosters used to supercharge the MSG content, It acts like a catalyst for the MSG to increase its effect. and thickeners are in blue
and sodium phosphate is a trick to retain moisture in foods. Ans Trisodium phosphate is commonly used as a toilet-bowl cleaner!! Hmm, if I ever was given a brisket that contained any of these ingredients, that is exactly where it would go! and it might clean my toilet to boot!!
A veritable chemical cocktail,

Seriously guys, I though of you competition guys as BBQ-gods up until I realized the crap you do to win that almighty trophy. I wish you would have all stuck with trying to get briskets from only the left side of the cow (another funny story)

Very much like someone really liking a certain celebrity, but upon meeting that celebrity in person to only find out they are a rude asshole and all your best thoughts of them are crushed!!
Now do you understand why this bothers me so much?

I used to almost idolize you guys for what you did, But now I know the truth!

FAB B
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, vegetable oil (soybean and or corn, cottonseed), sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

FAB B Lite
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, vegetable oil (soybean and or corn, cottonseed), sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

FAB C
Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and peanut oils, sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.
FAB P

Contains: Hydrolyzed soy protein, partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and peanut oils, sodium phosphates, mono sodium glutamate, autolyzed yeast extract, disodium inosinate and guanylate, xanthan gum.

I see no spices or seasoning in any of these ingredients. why is that?


You are making a generalization that all teams use this. The reason the other thread was written was to see if they are shipping. There is not many teams that use this stuff.

My point is, if one team uses it, I want to make sure that people can post about it without being attacked.

We all have our opinions of what BBQ is, I just want to make sure that I am aware of what is out there.

Many of you just want to shoot the messenger. I want to learn how and why it works, and draw my own opinion of it off line.
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Hogwild
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lewis & Herschel wrote:
............ I want to learn how and why it works, and draw my own opinion of it off line.


Harry, and other fearmongers, will not accept that. Any opinion that is not their own is incorrect, the facts be damned.....
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
Ans Trisodium phosphate is commonly used as a toilet-bowl cleaner!!


Harry, I think you are confusing Trisodium Phosphate(commonly known as TSP) with Sodium Tripolyphosphate(commonly referred to as STPP, or STP - sodium triphosphate). TSP is used as a cleaning agent, but it has a different chemical formula than the other.
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Ranucci's Big Butt
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thanks for saying all competitions teams use this. Shall we start making general statements on the caterers? I'm sure I could point out alot of stuff I don't agree with on that matter.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure that there are many athletes that feel it is perfectly all right to use steroid to be able to compete better and it is unfare to ban their use.

I think it will only be a matter of time before fab is banned as well.

If the need to win is so great that you feel you need use of such products, as I stated before, you need to learn how to make better food and work on your technic than take the easy way out by using fab.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont worry...in his haste to judge he missed the point...the point was that the MSG isnt the reason that folks use Fab. You could remove the MSG and folks will still use it..because it does something else for them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Hairy Sack ... I agree that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, but please stop grouping ALL competition cooks in to this category

Seriously guys, I though of you competition guys as BBQ-gods up until I realized the crap you do to win that almighty trophy.

I cook the very best BBQ that I can, You my friend have no idea as to what I use or don't use to accomplish this.

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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Harry, I think you are confusing Trisodium Phosphate(commonly known as TSP) with Sodium Tripolyphosphate(commonly referred to as STPP, or STP - sodium triphosphate). TSP is used as a cleaning agent, but it has a different chemical formula than the other.


Thank you Mike you are correct! I wan't going try to explain it myself. It's statements just like that by idiots that have no clue what they are talking about that scare people.

Quote:
I am sure that there are many athletes that feel it is perfectly all right to use steroid to be able to compete better and it is unfare to ban their use.

I think it will only be a matter of time before fab is banned as well.


I think it's crazy that some people would compare this to using steroid's. Thats nut's! If you think for a second that this or MSG will ever get banned your dreaming. There's no way that could ever happen. They couldn't police it. And if you think that there are only a few teams using it your also dreaming. One judge who does allot of contest said that the FAB B has gotten so commen that most of the judges who are regularly out there have got to were they are suprised when they don't have that flavor in the brisket's.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26 07 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One judge who does allot of contest said that the FAB B has gotten so commen that most of the judges who are regularly out there have got to were they are suprised when they don't have that flavor in the brisket's.


Come on Jim, there ain't no f'in way. For one thing, folks are having trouble even getting it. And another, the more judges I speak to, the more I think they just like to stuff their faces and the best food they ever get is the buffet at the monthly sales meeting. But if it is partially true then at least judges are picking up on it.
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