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Pulled beef and ABTs. my first.
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29 07 9:54 pm    Post subject: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

This was an 8.5 pound boneless chuck. smoked to 160 degrees, (8 hours) place in the oven till 195 covered. (3 hours).

let it sit till morning covered in the oven, it was still 110 degrees when I woke up at 4:30. pretty much fell apart had a sanwich for breakfast. Came out really good.

if you look closely you can see tghe point from a brisket in the corner of the cutting board. I couldnt decide which to eat first. Pullled beef won out, but the point will be chopped for lunch.

My first ABTs!

I hope you enjoy the pics....J

http://picasaweb.google.com/lowrider91/2007_10_28ABTsPulledBeef
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marvsbbq
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29 07 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

lowrider90 wrote:
This was an 8.5 pound boneless chuck. smoked to 160 degrees, (8 hours) place in the oven till 195 covered. (3 hours).

let it sit till morning covered in the oven, it was still 110 degrees when I woke up at 4:30. pretty much fell apart had a sanwich for breakfast. Came out really good.

if you look closely you can see tghe point from a brisket in the corner of the cutting board. I couldnt decide which to eat first. Pullled beef won out, but the point will be chopped for lunch.

My first ABTs!

I hope you enjoy the pics....J

http://picasaweb.google.com/lowrider91/2007_10_28ABTsPulledBeef



YOU DID WHAT?????????????

Are you friggin' CRAZY???????????

You NEVER let cooked meat sit out like that....The DANGER point for bacteria STARTS when the meat gets below 140 degrees and you had it at 110 and then ATE IT?????

IF...and I do say IF, I had EVER let cooked meat drop below 140 degrees it would be IN THE GARBAGE in a heart beat!!

Sorry man, but that is just WRONG!!

I admire your efforts but you MUST learn the basics of cooking and proper temperatures BEFORE you start cooking...you are well on your way to making someone (or yourself) very sick.
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Doc1680
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29 07 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lowrider90

Once your food gets to, I say 150*, it needs to be refrigerated to get it down to 40* ASAP. Between 40-140* is the danger zone. All sorts of undesirables can start enjoying your food. Not good eats. You may not have developed any critters this time, but I'm with marv. I would chuck (no pun) any of the beef to be safe.
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, lesson learned.

Let me ask you this, if the meat is in a covered container at 200 degrees and not opened, how much bacteria is there that survived nthe heat?


Bacteria does't just appear out of no where, right. the air or container must be contaminated before it can grow. Right?

Safety first of course, I'd like to hear your opinion, after all cooking kills bacteria right....you tell me how you think bacteria would enter the closed container. if it goes from closed container to fridge where is the contamination?

first off, I agree with you, but this is more for conversation its not about right or wrong. in a sterile envirnment with no bacteria present, it doesnt just show up out of the blue.

I dont take offense to comments from others unless they are intended nasty. I didnt take it that way.

Thanks for your comments, J
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skybob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Food temperature concerns aside, that's some fine looking food you've got there. I've just got to do some more ABT's soon!
As for the food temp concerns, I just remember the stuff I put in my mouth when I was growing up. Hell, I even shared a pop bottle with my friends with no more than a wipe of the sleeve across the top between gulps. Shocked I'm pretty sure that I surprised my mom by surviving my childhood. Laughing
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printman



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 2:49 am    Post subject: Danger Zone Reply with quote

The "danger zone" has been changed to 41*-135*, a few years ago.
But the FDA still uses the old numbers in their docs but not in their food handling tests.
http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/poison/danger.cfm

Also it depends on how long the meat has been below the 135*
temp. If the meat has not been below 135* for more than 2 Hrs
and cooled to under 41* in a short point of time, It should be fine.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/~fsg/f01chill.html
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skybob wrote:
Food temperature concerns aside, that's some fine looking food you've got there. I've just got to do some more ABT's soon!
As for the food temp concerns, I just remember the stuff I put in my mouth when I was growing up. Hell, I even shared a pop bottle with my friends with no more than a wipe of the sleeve across the top between gulps. Shocked I'm pretty sure that I surprised my mom by surviving my childhood. Laughing


Thanks,

I guess it is ok, I had pulled beef for breakfast and brisket for lunch and all I feel is satisfied.



Funny, I think we are all lucky.

Leaning on the side of safety when food is concerned is always best. here's another one for you. After your turkey on thanksgiving comes out from the oven... how long is it beofre it actually make it to the firdge? I should say how many hours? I bet in many household it sits out all afternnon.
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

marvsbbq wrote:
lowrider90 wrote:
This was an 8.5 pound boneless chuck. smoked to 160 degrees, (8 hours) place in the oven till 195 covered. (3 hours).

let it sit till morning covered in the oven, it was still 110 degrees when I woke up at 4:30. pretty much fell apart had a sanwich for breakfast. Came out really good.

if you look closely you can see tghe point from a brisket in the corner of the cutting board. I couldnt decide which to eat first. Pullled beef won out, but the point will be chopped for lunch.

My first ABTs!

I hope you enjoy the pics....J

http://picasaweb.google.com/lowrider91/2007_10_28ABTsPulledBeef



YOU DID WHAT?????????????

Are you friggin' CRAZY???????????

You NEVER let cooked meat sit out like that....The DANGER point for bacteria STARTS when the meat gets below 140 degrees and you had it at 110 and then ATE IT?????

IF...and I do say IF, I had EVER let cooked meat drop below 140 degrees it would be IN THE GARBAGE in a heart beat!!

Sorry man, but that is just WRONG!!

I admire your efforts but you MUST learn the basics of cooking and proper temperatures BEFORE you start cooking...you are well on your way to making someone (or yourself) very sick.



http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12164

I guess I'm not the only one. How many others leave there meat in a cooler over night? look at the second post in this thread.
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Sa-Mokin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

marvsbbq wrote:
lowrider90 wrote:
This was an 8.5 pound boneless chuck. smoked to 160 degrees, (8 hours) place in the oven till 195 covered. (3 hours).

let it sit till morning covered in the oven, it was still 110 degrees when I woke up at 4:30. pretty much fell apart had a sanwich for breakfast. Came out really good.

if you look closely you can see tghe point from a brisket in the corner of the cutting board. I couldnt decide which to eat first. Pullled beef won out, but the point will be chopped for lunch.

My first ABTs!

I hope you enjoy the pics....J

http://picasaweb.google.com/lowrider91/2007_10_28ABTsPulledBeef



YOU DID WHAT?????????????

Are you friggin' CRAZY???????????

You NEVER let cooked meat sit out like that....The DANGER point for bacteria STARTS when the meat gets below 140 degrees and you had it at 110 and then ATE IT?????

IF...and I do say IF, I had EVER let cooked meat drop below 140 degrees it would be IN THE GARBAGE in a heart beat!!

Sorry man, but that is just WRONG!!

I admire your efforts but you MUST learn the basics of cooking and proper temperatures BEFORE you start cooking...you are well on your way to making someone (or yourself) very sick.


Dang Marv, you could have made your point without the tact of a charging Rhino man. I agree 100% that food poisoning is a serious issue, but the guy said it was his first. We all try to help the new guys and that can be done without sounding degrading.
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Last edited by Sa-Mokin on Tue Oct 30 07 10:10 am; edited 2 times in total
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Teleking
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lowrider90"]ok, lesson learned.

Let me ask you this, if the meat is in a covered container at 200 degrees and not opened, how much bacteria is there that survived nthe heat?


Bacteria does't just appear out of no where, right. the air or container must be contaminated before it can grow. Right?

Safety first of course, I'd like to hear your opinion, after all cooking kills bacteria right....you tell me how you think bacteria would enter the closed container. if it goes from closed container to fridge where is the contamination?

first off, I agree with you, but this is more for conversation its not about right or wrong. in a sterile envirnment with no bacteria present, it doesnt just show up out of the blue./quote]

It came from the foil, your hands, the towels you put in the cooler. Bacteria are everywhere and unless you sterilized everything with bleach (including the food) and hermetically sealed the cooler it is contaminated.

Mythbusters did a show on the contaminated tooth brush with e. coli in the bathroom from flushing the toilet and the best location to store it. All of the tooth brushes in the study and even the controls in a different room (under cover) had e. coli bacteria on them when tested.
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OddThomas
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

When it comes to beef barbecue, I've always preferred a nice pulled chuck to brisket and tri-tip (probably because I suck at brisket and tri-tip, lol) and I have to agree that does look yummy. I haven't had any in a while... maybe this weekend. =) I don't freak out about temperatures in general, but depending on how long it sat under 140 (or 135 if that's the new rule of thumb), it can be a problem.

The thing about bacteria is it's persistent and ovens and standard cookware aren't completely airtight. If you leave the meat in the danger zone for too long (generally more than 4 hours), bacteria will begin to get a foothold. My best advice is to set your oven to it's lowest temperature (mine does 170) and let that control your bacteria issue without further cooking the food. If having your main oven on while you sleep is an issue, maybe a cooler with a heating pad inserted or a Crockpot set to low, with just a tiny bit of beef broth added to maintain moisture will do the trick.

Good luck. =)
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OddThomas
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

lowrider90 wrote:
I guess I'm not the only one. How many others leave there meat in a cooler over night?

I have many times, but I've gotten in the habit of using a heating pad if I'm going to be holding for more than 4-5 hours. I've also found a cooler does a much better job of retaining the heat for long periods than a standard oven.
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OddThomas wrote:
Hi,

When it comes to beef barbecue, I've always preferred a nice pulled chuck to brisket and tri-tip (probably because I suck at brisket and tri-tip, lol) and I have to agree that does look yummy. I haven't had any in a while... maybe this weekend. =) I don't freak out about temperatures in general, but depending on how long it sat under 140 (or 135 if that's the new rule of thumb), it can be a problem.

The thing about bacteria is it's persistent and ovens and standard cookware aren't completely airtight. If you leave the meat in the danger zone for too long (generally more than 4 hours), bacteria will begin to get a foothold. My best advice is to set your oven to it's lowest temperature (mine does 170) and let that control your bacteria issue without further cooking the food. If having your main oven on while you sleep is an issue, maybe a cooler with a heating pad inserted or a Crockpot set to low, with just a tiny bit of beef broth added to maintain moisture will do the trick.

Good luck. =)


Good advise, i will normally leave my oven at 170 over night. in this case the I turned the oven off around 10-11 pm the meat temp was approaching 200, so it probly wasnt under 140 for but a few hours.
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

Sa-Mokin wrote:


Dang Marv, you could have made your point without the tact of a charging Rhino man. I agree 100% that food poising is a serious issue, but the guy said it was his first. We all try go help the new guys and that can be done without sounding degrading.


Dont hold it against Marv. Although it was my first "Pulled beef" and first "ABTs" Ihave been smokeing with this lang smoker for over 4 years....i havent gotten anyone sick yet.

Marvs point is a good one albeit a little to black and white. I. E.... if his meat goes under 140 he throws it away. I doubt it.
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Doc1680
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lowrider90 wrote:
ok, lesson learned.

Let me ask you this, if the meat is in a covered container at 200 degrees and not opened, how much bacteria is there that survived nthe heat?


Bacteria does't just appear out of no where, right. the air or container must be contaminated before it can grow. Right?

Safety first of course, I'd like to hear your opinion, after all cooking kills bacteria right....you tell me how you think bacteria would enter the closed container. if it goes from closed container to fridge where is the contamination?

first off, I agree with you, but this is more for conversation its not about right or wrong. in a sterile envirnment with no bacteria present, it doesnt just show up out of the blue.

I dont take offense to comments from others unless they are intended nasty. I didnt take it that way.

Thanks for your comments, J


Marv was a little strong, but it was out of concern I'm sure. I am speaking from experience. I am a typical bachelor so you know I've eaten some things that were definitely questionable. Until I had a run in with a pork butt that I had done much the same way you did. I think mine was out a couple hours longer. I figured it was fine. Grabbed a couple of quick sammies for breakfast. Threw the rest in the fridge and took off. Now I didn't get deathly ill, but I got closer than I would have liked with the toilets at work. I must admit. I still slack at times, but I am much more vigilant about food safety. Just looking out for a fellow Qer. Wink

And I also saw that mythbusters episode. WOW!!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice looking groceries, Lowrider.

Steve H
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marvsbbq
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Pulled beef and ABTs. my first. Reply with quote

lowrider90 wrote:

Marvs point is a good one albeit a little to black and white. I. E.... if his meat goes under 140 he throws it away. I doubt it.


No need to doubt.....TRUE story...been in the business too long to take ANY chances.

My statement was made from both my personal and professional cooking.

But I also remember when a childs saftey restraint in a vehicle was their parents ARM.... Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lowrider90.....I am sorry if I came off strong or in any way embarrassed you. That was certainly NOT my intent.

I was merely trying to show the importance of food saftey.....And yes, I have (before I knew about food saftey) done some pretty questionable things with food myself and lived to tell about it.. Shocked Sometimes it even shocks me, but I did... Laughing

Keep cooking that great Q...but in a safe manner.. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally, the clock starts ticking after the food falls below 140'.

At the four hour mark (which is not a magical number, just the one that is used- certain factors may cause this to vary slightly) it's garbage.

If it has been refrigerated properly after say an hour, then thawed out at room temp. for another 3 hours, you are right back at the four hour mark.

Same reason that turkey processors recommend thawing turkey in the fridge, not on your kitchen counter. Folks of course do it all the time and "get away with it", but it doesn't make it any righter! Wink
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lowrider90
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30 07 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marvsbbq wrote:
Lowrider90.....I am sorry if I came off strong or in any way embarrassed you. That was certainly NOT my intent.

I was merely trying to show the importance of food saftey.....And yes, I have (before I knew about food saftey) done some pretty questionable things with food myself and lived to tell about it.. Shocked Sometimes it even shocks me, but I did... Laughing

Keep cooking that great Q...but in a safe manner.. Wink


Really, i was fine, I probably shouldnt say this but as an attorney you have to have pretty thick skin. I took it as you are passionate about the food handling and your business. Over all, I think the info in this topic was well worth talking about and it and probably helped a lot of others folks as well.

I know I will be more alert when handling food. Thanks, Jay
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