FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Vertical Design Questions

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> Cookers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
direHerring



Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12 11 3:12 pm    Post subject: Vertical Design Questions Reply with quote

I'm currently in the design phase of my first build. I've done quite a bit of research and found a lot of information, but am still a bit confused about the details.

I intend to use this cooker for a variety of processes:
Hot Smoking. Mostly pork butts and some chicken/duck/turkey.
Grilling. Steaks, burgers, etc.
Cold smoking. Fish, cheese, BACON.

I've decided I want an insulated vertical cooking chamber with an offset firebox that will allow grilling directly over the fire.

here is a cross section of the design at this point.



Now I have a few concerns.


Like I said, I'd like to do some cold smoking as well, I'm wondering if a design like this will allow temperatures low enough (often <100 degrees).
Or do I need to alter the design?


Also

I used the calculator I found on the forum, and the results seem really strange to me.

It's saying I need 13.82 sq in for the air intake. I was planning on 2" pipe with ball valves, but it'll take 5 of them. that seems way excessive to me.

and I need 36 sq in to the cooking chamber. Now, if I have 36 sq in going into the chamber, I'll need 36 sq in coming out too, and with that area of a chimney it says it should be 6.5" long. Now I haven't studied thermodynamics in a while, but I'm pretty sure a 6" square chimney that's only 6.5" long isn't going to draft very well


This has gotten way longer than I intended. If anyone has any thoughts/advice around these points or the design in general, I'd greatly appreciate hearing them.

Thanks in advance
DH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoEzzy
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 13183
Location: SLC, UT

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12 11 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Vertical Design Questions Reply with quote

direHerring wrote:
I used the calculator I found on the forum, and the results seem really strange to me.

It's saying I need 13.82 sq in for the air intake. I was planning on 2" pipe with ball valves, but it'll take 5 of them. that seems way excessive to me.


If you need 13.82 sq in, a 2" diameter pipe has 3.14 sq in area, so you need 4 and a bit, if you use 2.5" pipe 4 of those would be more than the 14 sq in.


Quote:
and I need 36 sq in to the cooking chamber. Now, if I have 36 sq in going into the chamber, I'll need 36 sq in coming out too, and with that area of a chimney it says it should be 6.5" long. Now I haven't studied thermodynamics in a while, but I'm pretty sure a 6" square chimney that's only 6.5" long isn't going to draft very well


This has gotten way longer than I intended. If anyone has any thoughts/advice around these points or the design in general, I'd greatly appreciate hearing them.

Thanks in advance
DH


What figures did you input, as if we can reproduce them and tell you how it might work for you.
_________________
Here's a change Robert.

I still work here!


Last edited by SoEzzy on Sun Feb 13 11 2:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15474
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12 11 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will also need a lip around the exit into the cook chamber to prevent grease from draining into the firebox.

A drain valve would be nice too!

IMHO it's better to go with a slightly bigger intake/exhaust and use a damper to adjust then to make a mistake and wish the openings were bigger.
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
direHerring



Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13 11 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should've included dimensions before I started talking about the size of openings.

The cooking chamber is 16"w x 24"d x 36"h
Firebox is 12"w x 24"d x 16"h

SoEzzy:
I'd be fine with 2 or even 3 of the 2" pipes as an intake, but the calculator says the area of each is 3.14, and that I need 4.4 of them, so I rounded up to 5

I looked into larger pipe, but the valves get a lot more expensive above 2". I can get a 2" butterfly valve for <$50. I couldn't find a 2.5" for under $100

BBQMAN:
I was planning on using a full size (12" x 20") steam table pan to catch the drippings because it's stainless and I can throw it in the dishwasher. There would be about 2" around the outside for airflow. I guess I was hoping the pan would catch the majority of the drippings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr.T
Newbie


Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13 11 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest putting a large removable pipe (6" or so) between the fire box and cook chamber. You could have 2 pipes, one for BBQ and a long one for cold smoking. In my experience, insulated cook chambers or so efficient that your fire will have to be so small and difficult to keep lit and hot enough to burn the wood completely. If you have or can find the book "Meat smoking and smokehouse design" by Marianski. Page 202 has an excellent picture of what I'm talking about if you don't get the idea. Here's a similar picture from the same book.
Scroll down to the last page 184.

I would also suggest moving the chimney to the side or putting a grease trap under it as you have it now. Grease will drip down on your food. The grease trap will take up cooking space though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
direHerring



Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14 11 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr T:
the link you posted stopped at page 86 for me, so I haven't seen either of those designs.

I thought about something like that, but i couldn't figure out a way to build it simply. I am far from a master fabricator. There are a few concerns:

1. the joints themselves (pipe/firebox, and pipe/chamber). building something that is easily removable and air tight seems difficult.

2. I wouldn't want to try and move the smoke a long distance in a horizontal direction. this can easily be resolved by mounting the pipe at an angle, but that means the firebox will need to be at different heights depending on how long the pipe is. Building a stand that allows easy height adjustments by one person seems complicated.

Any thoughts on some relatively simple ways to address these?

I hadn't thought about a drip pan under the stack. that seems like a good idea. I'll have to add that along with the lip around the firebox opening mentioned above.

Thanks for the tips
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jon D. Q.
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 404
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14 11 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very much agree with what BBQMAN said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Awning Guy
BBQ Pro


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 760
Location: Riverside Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14 11 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a random thought. What if you added a box next to the firebox to use as an oven? You gotta have a place for beans and such? Cool
_________________
First Build[/url]
Pig Cooker
Pizza Oven
Disco
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14 11 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple of things that may help:

1. Put a rain shield inside the top of the vertical. It can be hung from the top and should extend to about about two inches from the sides. This will allow the water to hit the shield and run to the sides of the cooker.
2. The pit cal is designed for horizontal smokers. Verticals operate with more draw naturally. However you still need enough air intake to make things work.
3. Another problem with verticals is the heat comes in for the bottom and has a tendency to move to the sides and run right the sides ( path of least resistance) I use tumblers as my rack rests to direct the air back towards the center. A 2 inch rest should do it.
4. Use a inverted V to direct the air towards the side of the smoker. Tilt it towards the rear and it will act like a trench and direct your grease towards the pipe (drain) at the end. Slot the V so it can be mounted on the sides of the cooker but still allow air to pass thru.

Hope this helps and i am sure you will have more questions.




_________________
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
warren.miller
Newbie


Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24 11 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you put the v at the top so the smoke(heat) does not just stay in the center?

What is the v at the bottom for?
_________________
XL Green Egg
Building a veriticle Smoker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
direHerring



Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24 11 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The top is to prevent condensation from the stack from dripping on the meet. it will pull soot and other nastiness from the stack and leave it on your meat.

the bottom is to prevent grease from the meat from falling into the firebox. grease will burn and leave different elements in the smoke than wood. this will also make the meat taste bad.

I'm still planning on using pans to trap these drippings. I'll lose the drain, but gain the capability of adding water and some aromatics to the cooking chamber to help keep the meat moist and add flavor.

still working out the details of the new design. I'll post it when I get it done

DH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dfess1
BBQ Fan


Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 276
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25 11 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

direHerring wrote:
The top is to prevent condensation from the stack from dripping on the meet. it will pull soot and other nastiness from the stack and leave it on your meat.

the bottom is to prevent grease from the meat from falling into the firebox. grease will burn and leave different elements in the smoke than wood. this will also make the meat taste bad.

I'm still planning on using pans to trap these drippings. I'll lose the drain, but gain the capability of adding water and some aromatics to the cooking chamber to help keep the meat moist and add flavor.

still working out the details of the new design. I'll post it when I get it done

DH

I'm in the process of doing the design/research on a stumps clone as well. From everything I've read, they stay pretty moist on their own.
_________________
Brinkman SnP - with mods
Custom Stumps Clone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> Cookers All times are GMT + 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group