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Undercooking Hamburger
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Herman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25 11 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien
I agree with most of the items posted in this discussion but one thing that you posted concerns me greatly. You posted that you do not cook frozen turkeys. In our restaurant we place 22 to 32 pound frozen turkeys in a pan with about 2 inches of water and foil then place in 330 degree oven and cook to internal temp of 175 degrees. The result is a very tasty and tender turkey. We started this cooking process after consultation with our HD as to the safest way to prepare turkey. We have been following this procedure for the last 6 years twice a week.

Am I missing something in our procedures that could cause me problems with food safety?

Herman
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26 11 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never heard of cooking a frozen turkey (on purpose). It doesn't mean it can't be done but my concern is that by the time you get the turkey at the thickest part to temp, the rest of the turkey would be overcooked. If you are having success I applaud your efforts. However, I would suggest that you take a couple of probes and insert them in your next turkey. I believe you will be surprised to find how long it takes the rest of the bird to catch up to the outside of the turkey once it is done.
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Herman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26 11 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize for hijacking this thread about hamburger but I am anal retentive when it comes to food safety in my restaurants. So I revisited this frozen turkey cooking with my HD and found that I was following the best and safest method of handling my frozen turkeys in fact I was shown several articles about this method being approved by FDA.

But since this is a forum about smoking I thought that I should place the info in this thread that "frozen turkeys" cannot be smoked, BBQ or fried safely without thawing.

Herman
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Pit Boss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26 11 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herman, your method of cooking a frozen turkey is pretty much the same way I used to cook them when I worked with (managed) a big bbq place one county over from you. I guess it's a pretty common method in our area.
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Teleking
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26 11 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ wrote:
I would suggest that you take a couple of probes and insert them in your next turkey.


How would one accomplish this task in a frozen turkey? Drill a hole or maybe a hammer! Wink
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28 11 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An alien probe can penetrate anything Shocked Shocked or you could wait a couple of hours into the cook and stick them in then.
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Teleking
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28 11 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ wrote:
An alien probe can penetrate anything Shocked Shocked


Oh my! Shocked
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Michael B
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28 11 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve seen several rare-medium-well done charts. The one I use for beef is:
Rare 120° - 125°
Medium-rare 130° - 135°
Medium 140° - 145°
Medium-well 150° - 155°
Well done 160°
(These temps are about 10 degrees below FDA numbers)

For hamburger or ground beef, the FDA says:
To be sure all bacteria are destroyed, cook meat loaf, meatballs, and hamburgers to a safe minimum internal temperature of 160 °F. Use a food thermometer to check that they have reached a safe internal temperature.

I like grinding my own hamburger, and unless someone asks for their’s to be cooked differently, always cook to medium.

FDA - Cooking a turkey from the frozen state.
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farmboy236
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28 11 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cook everything but poultry to rare/mid-rare. The taste of anything well done just doesn't appeal to me at all. I guess I am one of the lucky ones though because I produce my own beef/pork/lamb and poultry so I don't get overly worried about contamination. I also do my own processing on most of it so I don't have to worry about the processors cleaning standards.
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SmokinOkie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28 11 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to check the USAD website on ground hamburger:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Ground_Beef_and_Food_Safety/index.asp
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Soybomb
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30 11 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pit Boss wrote:
Soybomb wrote:
With trich. gone from commercial pork today...


That information is false.


http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/gen_info/faqs.html
Quote:
Is trichinellosis common in the United States?

Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.


http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/nal_web/fsrio/fsheet.php?id=230
Quote:
Although the estimated number of trichinellosis cases reported to the CDC has declined from fewer than 50 per year in the 1980s to fewer than 10 per year from 1996 through 2000, trends in disease incidence and transmission patterns have changed over the years, particularly with human migration from Southeast Asia

*snip*

the national trichinellosis surveillance system has reported a decline in the median number of cases from 393 during 1947-1951 to 12 during 1997-2001 annually.14 The number of reported cases related to eating pork has decreased since 1982 apparently due to decline in Trichinella prevalence in commercial pork products as a result of improved swine production practices.12, 14 However, during 1997 to 2001 the number of cases related to eating non-pork products has remained constant and surpassed that of the pork first time. In addition, during the same time period, the cases associated with noncommercial pork outnumbered the cases associated with commercial pork, highlighting a change in risk pattern in the pork consumption.12


Eater beware but with something like 10 cases a year and the majority coming from wild game or non-commercial pork I feel pretty comfortable not worrying about trich coming out of the ibp bag.
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30 11 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SmokinOkie wrote:
You might want to check the USAD website on ground hamburger:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Ground_Beef_and_Food_Safety/index.asp


USDA advice is only good for American beef. Canadian beef is a little different which is why they cook it longer.
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day_trippr
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30 11 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm wrote:
SmokinOkie wrote:
You might want to check the USAD website on ground hamburger


USDA advice is only good for American beef. Canadian beef is a little different which is why they cook it longer.


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PitMattster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm, what are you inferring with your statement regarding Canadian Beef being different then American, and us having to cook it longer?

If you are going to make inflammatory statements, that is completely of your free will.

Personally, I have no issues with a good intelligent discussion - as most of this thread has been. However if you wish to make such statements please provide evidence as to why you believe this is so, so that the discussion may continue and that other's may learn from this thread.

However if you don't please keep your comments to yourself, because as I stated at the beginning of this post I was not trying to insult or trash-talk anyone, I was just looking for more information. Information that has been provided in abundance, to which I've read and learnt from.
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Pit Boss
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soybomb wrote:
Eater beware but with something like 10 cases a year and the majority coming from wild game or non-commercial pork I feel pretty comfortable not worrying about trich coming out of the ibp bag.


You're exactly right & I also eat loins and chops cooked nice & juicy. But to say that trichinosis is 'gone' from commercial pork isn't true. There are indeed VERY few cases country wide, with the majority being from wild game, but it is still around...not eradicated by any means.

Now, back on topic.
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MacEggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion reminds me of my teenage years back in the '80's. Please allow me to explain.

The restaurant Fuddrucker's opened up in my hometown of Brampton, Ontario, Canada in around 1985. I loved this place!

Cook a burger the way you requested - who would of thought? I would order med-rare or med, depending on my mood and it was "out of bounds" (props to Guy Fieri) with flavour. Then when I saw what they did with the buns, and I became a repeat customer. I believed it closed it's doors in the late '80's. Crying or Very sad

The odd time my Mom would mistakenly say, "let's go to RuddF$#*ers". I really miss that place.




I've had this matchbox for over 20 years. Obsess much?

Please, everyone play nice. I will be 42 soon. Eating undercooked ground beef 25 years ago didn't affect me any.
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PitMattster wrote:
Soapm, what are you inferring with your statement regarding Canadian Beef being different then American, and us having to cook it longer?

If you are going to make inflammatory statements, that is completely of your free will.

Personally, I have no issues with a good intelligent discussion - as most of this thread has been. However if you wish to make such statements please provide evidence as to why you believe this is so, so that the discussion may continue and that other's may learn from this thread.

However if you don't please keep your comments to yourself, because as I stated at the beginning of this post I was not trying to insult or trash-talk anyone, I was just looking for more information. Information that has been provided in abundance, to which I've read and learnt from.


I guess they don't have humor up there either. Perhaps that extra cooking is removing it from your Canadian beef... Smile

My comment was clear humor based on the USDA jurisdiction being limited to the US. How can one have a serious discussion about how another person likes their beef? Even if I eat my beef raw, if I'm not sick and still alive to discuss it then what's the problem and why would I have to justify my eating preferences?

Doctors recommend optimum height and weight but I know a preacher whose 96 and extremely overweight and I know several people within those standards that have had strokes and heart troubles. One recently passed and he was in no way overweight. Recommendations are just that, recommendations. I say enjoy life while you have it and if that means eating slightly undercooked beef then enjoy your burger your way. You might get up from the table and get run over by a taxi cab but at least you can say you enjoyed your last meal...

Now I hope you can relax and let your observations stand on their own merits. Canadians cook their beef longer. Why does someone have to be right and someone have to be wrong?
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacEggs wrote:
Cook a burger the way you requested - who would of thought? I would order med-rare or med, depending on my mood and it was "out of bounds" (props to Guy Fieri) with flavour. .


Careful Buddy, you're dispelling the myth that all burgers in Canada are "properly cooked"... Or that everyone in Canada prefers their burgers "properly cooked"...
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MacEggs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm wrote:
Quote:
Careful Buddy, you're dispelling the myth that all burgers in Canada are "properly cooked"... Or that everyone in Canada prefers their burgers "properly cooked"...


I like your sense of humour. I still have mine. Wink No matter what cut of beef, I always consume medium-rare. Thank you for the reply.
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PitMattster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31 11 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm,

Actually the OP was in regards to why I was taught about cooking ground beef to well done as being necessary. After several points made by several people I came to the conclusion I was wrong in my original teachings.

Further to that I have a great sense of humor, but you made a very poor attempt at it. I simply pointed out how your reply simply did not in any way add to the conversation.

However you did feel the need I see to make another poor attempt at humor and again it came across as insulting. So now I'm asking you to please no longer reply to this thread as you are really not adding anything to it.

Of course you can take that as just a recommendation.
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