Is RF neccessary?

[smootz]

So - I have been hanging around several forums for months now and I have a question.

Is reverse flow really a big advantage. I see so many types of smokers. There are standard offsets, horizontal RFs, Vertical insulated cabinets with and without RF. WSMs and even UDSs.

Everyone claims to be the best. So is all this reverse flow and/or low stacks worth the effort or is it just a way to express yourself? Has anyone actually put on a glass lid and watched the smoke? Can you tell a real difference in the smoke ring and/or taste?

Why is the sky blue and the grass green? Sorry, that one slipped out
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SCOTTIE

150 gallon vertical
propane pig
180 RF
www.mootzwelding.com

[SoEzzy]

To people that want a reverse flow, a reverse flow cooker is a big advantage, as it gives them what they want in a cooker. To the person wanting a cheap to build and cheap to run cooker they are not an advantage at all, in fact they are a disadvantage!

If you want a car to get you from point A to point B, you could have anything from a Yugo to a Maclaren Supercar, both will get you there, but if you want to haul 3/4 of a ton of ballast stone, I'd still look at a pickup first and foremost... does that mean that there are no legitimate uses for the Yugo or the Super Car? Not at all, but it does mean you buy or build what you want to take your meat from raw to cooked the best, most suitable way you can, that suits your pocket book and desires.

At the end of the day you can cook on the biggest, most bad ass cooker on the circuit, but if you don't have a clue what you are doing, the food it produces still tastes of creosote and ashes.

Would I have a RF personally? Probably not... not because they are bad cookers, but because a good cheap fuel supply is not available to me at this time, if I had unlimited funds I would like an RF and an 18 wheeler delivering me a trailer full of wood for the next months cooking, (as I don't have funds like that available), I'd rather cook as often as I can on the other pits that I have, 55 gallon UDS's, 85 gallon UDS's, 18.5" WSM, Cimmaron Offset, un modified ECB, propane grill or electric smoker.

I use the electric smoker for smoking bacon and hams, I use the gas grill for summer quick cooks, when I get home late from work and don't want to add extra heat to the house, the 55 gallon UDS's are my reserve cookers when I don't have enough room on the 85 gallon UDS's, the offset is for feeding all day when I have time to just sit and smoke, and the ECB, I only use to demonstrate that I'm not a BBQ snob, (and that I do have one, though rarely ever use it as more than the lighter for my chimney starter, (not even the lighter, just the place I stand it as it get going)!

I for one try not to claim the UDS's are the best ever cookers, but I will happily say that just about anyone who can use a drill and a couple of wrenches can put one together, and be cooking on it inside a two or three hour window. Does that make it the best... not necessarily, but it does make it cheap and quick to build, especially if you have the insides of an old Weber Kettle somewhere in the back yard.

The full scientific evaluations of all the criteria for pits include but are not restricted to:

Cost to build.
Cost to run / hour.
Exposed area of heat loss in adverse conditions.
Speed of recover, from low or high temperatures caused by methods of use.
Ease of use.
Capacity.
Fueling methods, long burn / quick burn, and how to maintain the temperature in the pit.
Transportabillity / ease of movement.

There are probably more that didn't spring to mind, but at the end of the day, if the same person was using one of each style of pit to cook with identical meat, identical rubs and identical techniques, when the food was placed in front of the judges, their selection of the best meat, would still be totally down to their subjective tasting, and not down to the pit that the meat was cooked on.
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JM2C, BWTFDIK, YMMV, MDN!

I work here!

[va_connoisseur]

Great reply.

[Mr Tony's BBQ]

I have a 250 gal RF, use it 3 days a week in the winter - had 3 cord of wood delivered in the fall, and have enough to get me thru march and then some....not sure why RF's get such a bad rap for useage, I dont think thats bad...though I do drive an F350 gasser.....9.2 MPG plowing snow.....aint never seen a yugo plow snow
In the middle of building a oil tank RF, maybe it will be a log hog, who knows until I burn it....but I personally love my RF, have even changed my charbriler over to rf unit - Personally, I find it hard to screw up meat on it - unless I put it over the fire box
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Money Maker
Scrapper
UDCS
that aint burnt, that's flavor!
Liar #22
Being blessed with income from my passion!
WWW.MRTONYSBBQ.COM

[smootz]

I have a limitless supply of free hickory so ----- Cost and tending time aside,

What I am wondering is if there is really a big difference in the smoke density as it relates to the meat?

When you open a Horizontal RF, a Pitmaker Vault, a Stokes. a Backwoods, a WSM, or a UDS aren't they all full of smoke?

Hopefully this summer I can go to a few competitions and won't have so many stupid questions next year.
_________________
SCOTTIE

150 gallon vertical
propane pig
180 RF
www.mootzwelding.com

[SoEzzy]

To me it is more down to who and how they tend the fire, keeping a clean burning fire, compared with a sooty, creosote producing fire.

Some people at competitions even teams with similar pits, by the same exact maker, can cook side by side, one cooks great BBQ, the other doesn't, but that's just my opinion based on what I ate of each entry at the judges table.

There are so many factors, rubs, sauces, wood, charcoal, even how old the wood is, the meat supply, how well it is treated, prepared and presented.

And don't think that a year will stop the questions, they will just be tempered with the knowledge you gain between now and then!

I'm still fascinated by how crazy, such a simple thing as BBQ, can make me, with the why's, when's, what's, etc. that crawl around my mind, when I let it out of it's white jacket!
_________________
JM2C, BWTFDIK, YMMV, MDN!

I work here!

[k.a.m.]

smootz, I see you got your sigs correct you gonna check your P.M. I answered you the other day.
_________________
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

Reverse Flow
Hybrid Cooker

[QTEX]

Its not the cooker (pit), its the cooker (person) that makes great bbq. Some people believe what they want to believe because so and so said so. Some want to keep up the the Joneses and some just like to show off. Some can cook and some cannot as already stated above. Mostly personal preference and likes. Go to any big cook off and watch the top ten winners and chances are none are usng the same cooker (pit). There are so many many roads that lead to Rome where there are many many ways to skin that cat. Its all good imo.

[smootz]

[k.a.m.]

smootz, for me it depends on what you want out of your cooker they all cook great once you learn how to use them. Smoke rings come and go I never pay attention to them sure they are nice for pics but that's about it in my opinion.
If you want even cooking all the time buy or build a reverse flow.
If you want long unattended cooks your choices are very broad as you can build a UDS all the way to a clone cabinet cooker or buy one.
If you want to be able to adjust the grate temps either build or buy a cooker with tuning plates, you can also learn how a cooker works with out tuning plates and be happy with the grate temps that are afforded to you.
I can go on and on with this and dissect it further but over the years I have tempered my thoughts to just let folks know to study each type and either build or buy what you want then learn how to use it.
I own several upright cookers along with offsets and they all turn out great food. Debbie's UDS has taken first in brisket more than once but so has the Smokin'Ace's reverse flow both turn out great food while both are totally different styles of cooking.
Buy or build what you want and learn the cooker is the simplest answer for this question.
These are just my thoughts.
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Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

Reverse Flow
Hybrid Cooker

[QTEX]

Well said KAM
[/list]

[va_connoisseur]

To add to what K.A.M. said, don't think one smoker will ever do. Once you get the addiction known as BBQin', there isn't a 12 step that can help you. I have 2 smokers in my backyard now (a WSM and an offset) and I just made a deposit to have a 120 gallon reverse flow trailer made.

But the key to all of this is learn your smoker and work with it's strengths. Let it do what it do and enjoy some good 'Cue.

[bnew17]

[k.a.m.]

[smootz]

[Wreckless]

The RF takes care of the even temps. What is left is smoke Quality and consistent temps. A cooker that runs hot and cold and does not burn clean or the opposite goes a long way for taste in my world. I don't believe I have ever thrown on a chunk of meat and left wishing for more smoke flavor. A better flavor yes, at times, more smoke...nope. The drippings adding to the flavor as k.a.m. suggested are icing on the cake so to speak.
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[sprayboss]

X2 to what everyone has said so far. I have a 160 gallon reverse flow in my backyard. On average it costs $1 per hour in wood to run it. That could be a lot less if I find more affordable priced wood. On charcoal, it costs as much as $5 per hour for the first 6 hours of temps. It will run 5 hours unattended on charcoal which is nice also. Good luck with whatever you choose. I feel the advantages of reverse flow far outweigh the concerns of a little bit more wood to fire it.
jk

[alex b.]

wow, glad i found this----kind of,more to think about.

[feldon30]

[k.a.m.]