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Bigjim4x
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: Ville Platte LA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 07 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your right, anyone that pumps meat blocks knows to use a product called cold phaosphate or the sausage binder for flavor is a sure gelitan that has cold phosphate in it. Either product is flovorless in itself. So just contact your local meat spice supplier and by it in bulk. We keep it on hand and use it weekly when doing hams and wide selection of sausages.


You got it!! Just buy up a bunch and shoot them up.
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 07 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I have used this in sausage, I think, when I made it at a friend's commercial kitchen. It made the sausage really hold together. I may have used too much in one of the batches because the sausage was almost tough. Could this be a drawback or side-effect of your product? It seems everything good could have a downside.

I really am curious. I'm sure I'll try it but I like to do my research first.
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 07 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ah, I have used this in sausage, I think, when I made it at a friend's commercial kitchen. It made the sausage really hold together. I may have used too much in one of the batches because the sausage was almost tough. Could this be a drawback or side-effect of your product? It seems everything good could have a downside.

I really am curious. I'm sure I'll try it but I like to do my research first.


I was just joking about what David said. What he's talking about is not it.

I'm just about to put a brisket on to test cook and I used allot more than I normally do just to see about that myself. One of the things is sausage making they use is some sort of curing salt and if you use to much of that it will give the tough effect.
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3970010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 07 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woops-if any of you read the message that was here befor I edited, please forgive me. It was intended as a PM. I am sorry about the language.

Cant believe I did that.
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mop bucket I'm ashamed at you using that kind of language! I couldn't tell all my secrets till it was time. I'll email you once I'm ready. Are you cooking this weekend anywhere?
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. So the main thing it does is make briskets more forgiving as far as drying them out and the MGS brings out the flavor? And the customer can add whatever flavors they want to it?
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 07 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
OK. So the main thing it does is make briskets more forgiving as far as drying them out and the MGS brings out the flavor? And the customer can add whatever flavors they want to it?


What the product does is it help tremendously in moisture retention. It is also a carrier of flavors so whatever liquid you choose to mix it with it will carry those flavors through out the meat. I mix up a marinade and then add the product after. The MSG certainly help's with the flavor enhancement. The way the product works is it will hold the moisture that the meat has in it naturaly. That means that the better product you start with the better results you will see. If you cook only select brisket's there won't be as much natural moisture in the meat as there would be using a choice brisket. Adding some sort of oil to your marinade will help with this but it much better to start out with a more marbled piece of meat.
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Big Tom
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21 07 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Jim, any updates of the web or ebay site? I would like to dabble with some of this prior to the "Big Show" in May. Might be just what my compeition product is missing.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to admit this guys, But I just lost a whole lot of respect for competitions.

I do "Q" for the natural aspect of making a tough cut very edible by cooking it naturally & without the use of additives and MSG, (MSG should be classified as a drug instead of a flavor)
Just because it can be derived from plants doesn't make it alright, Ricin along with other very deadly chemicals is all derived from plants, and that will kill you too!

Antifreeze taste's good to dogs! does that mean it is acceptable to give them a dish of it?

By using these type of products you are no better than these meat processors that chemically enhance their product for more weight under the guise of it making it a better product.

I expect to get flamed for my statements, but I prefer natural products that are not juiced up on a chemical cocktail to artificially make it better.

No different than using tender-quick the way I see it!!

Seriously, WTF!!
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allsmokenofire
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry, there are still a lot of competition cooks that cook....and win, "au naturel" Wink
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allsmokenofire wrote:
Harry, there are still a lot of competition cooks that cook....and win, "au naturel" Wink


I know, and I am sorry if i offended anyone. with that type of prize money dangling in front of your nose I can fully understand why some teams would use these tactic's to win.

I just find it saddening because it creates an artificially moist product, that people feel it is now a necessary tactic to win. because everyone else is doing it.

I could not see myself entering a competition against "Juiced" meat. For the average pallet that is used to TV dinners and fast food. I am bothered that the juiced meat would be to the judges liking over natural goodness.

If I was judging, and I tasted that crap in a teams meat, it would get a low score even if every other aspect was absolute perfection, even though my score would get tossed for lowest, I think the other judges might start catching on soon too.

Once everyone starts doing this, this wave ain't gonna last. and what if they ban it? then what? risk it anyways??

Answer this question for me then.

Would all you guys that are injecting or rubbing this crap into your meat do it for your own personal BBQ, and feed it to your family on a regular basis?

or would you cook for a party made up of close personal friends with this adulterated meat, or is this strictly a competition thing?
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Big Tom
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't take offense the comments, but you did offer some retraction when you offered some rationalization of the behavior with some of the prizes/money that is on the line.

This thread could easily get distracted and off topic by starting in on the competition judges. But...

The reality of the compeitive product is we are trying to please those afore mentioned judges that may make the majority of the judging pool. There are many very credible and discerning food judges, but not enough to eliminate the trend to enhance competition product, as too many may already expect a quality product to have certain characteristics such as: "moist but not greasy". Regardless of the judging standards or instructions.

The desire to be successful does lead compeitive cooks in the direction (or percieved direction) that the winning teams are going. Not unlike using more butter like Myron Mixon (Jacks Old South), or basting with Italian dressing like J.D. Wheeler (Natural Born Grillers) have demonstrated or talked about on different television shows. Both these individuals/teams are very successful in competitions. It all could be smokescreen who knows?
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While we didn't win any trophy's at the Big Pig Jig in 2005, we did place in the top third under all three pork categories. No enhancement products used, no injecting, just old style BBQ techniques. Now it would have been great to win a trophy, but we went for the experience mostly, and to see how our food stacks up against some of the best in the business.

I totally agree with Harry on the catering end, but this isn't about catering! My clients love my food, and that makes me a winner (and my bank account too!) every time! Wink

Very interesting thread. If I ever get into the comp thing more often, my view might change (but I don't think so) If juicing meat is what iot takes to win at comp's, I will probably stay home and save my money for a much needed vacation! Very Happy
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I have said many times, I think all this juicing will come full circle. I am playing with the idea of some inside action at contests between those of us who do not juice until the judges and sanctioning bodies figure all this out. Maybe something like everyone who does not juice kick in another $50 into a bragging rights pot and the top scores outside the juicers gets the money. I know about 10 teams on the NE circuit I could trust in this action.

I certainly put my own asterisk by the juicers I see walk with money. Surely a judge that gets to judge in the Jack can pick this stuff out. It should filter down. Until then we have our own little "steroids in baseball" controversy going on here. Let's just hope the people eating this stuff don't end up with a size 8.5 head, like Barry Bonds or some other weird abnormality.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22 07 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the explanations guys.

If & when I ever try to compete, I can guarantee that I will not use a chemical cocktail (no matter how natural a product you try to convince yourself or me that it is) to alter the flavor, texture, or liquid content of my meat.
If I do not win or place high, I will still know that I did my best with what I could do with a naturally tough cut of meat to make it the best I can with natural cooking & flavoring techniques in the spirit of true barbecue.

And I would probably mutter something under my breath about the judges being "no-talent hacks" just looking for free food to get away from their frozen banquet meatloaf & lasagna dinners that they usually eat!!

Well, at least I know one of the less desirable techniques that I might be up against if I try a competition. Thank you for the education.
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allsmokenofire
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23 07 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrcustomsteel wrote:
Surely a judge that gets to judge in the Jack can pick this stuff out.


Incredibly, and somewhat unfortunately, The Jack uses 100% celebrity judges...less than a handful of which may also be certified judges. Confused
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23 07 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look guy's I'm not here trying to convince anyone to use anything for there competition Q. That's totally up to the cook. The only thing I wanted to do is to let anyone who want some that have something that will work. That's All!
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24 07 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjim4x wrote:
Look guy's I'm not here trying to convince anyone to use anything for there competition Q. That's totally up to the cook. The only thing I wanted to do is to let anyone who want some that have something that will work. That's All!


Hey, if money can be made, more power to you.

I guess I will just use this education as learning one of the dirty little secrets of competition. you did not invent the technique, you are trying to fill a void for the people that use it and can't get it.

If our local coke dealer got busted, Maybe I would try to pick up the slack and make some coin too. (Kidding guys!)
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Bigjim4x
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24 07 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If our local coke dealer got busted, Maybe I would try to pick up the slack and make some coin too.


I shouldn't be shocked to hear that from someone who pick the name Harry Nutczak
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24 07 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, this stuff is a far cry from cocaine. I'd say it's more like the Balco "supplements" Maguire and Bonds were using before baseball outlawed them. They were legal at the time so legally what can you do. Baseball is not going to slap around big names and the BBQ sanctioning bodies are not either. Use of these products will be interesting to watch over the next several years.

Mike, Every time I try to find some glimmer of hope and credibility among the majority of CBJs, it is quickly dashed. The more I talk to them around the circuit and try to compare numbers across teams, the less I think of them.
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